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Old 05-05-2010, 04:27 PM   #1
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Default My car wont start *Now 323 GTX Engine Swap!*

This is as a result of my bad hydrolock over the weekend before an autox event. TPS circuit shorted and MS opened my injectors and filled the engine up with fuel. It sat over night with fuel in the combustion chamber before I had a chance to clear it out. Was a spectacle at the autox event spewing tons of fuel out of the spark plug tubes.

Anyway, i've fixed the short. No more filling up with fuel. With the plugs out it spings freely and quickly and nothing sounds like its knocking around in there at all so there might be some hope for my engine yet. Tested my megasquirt on falcon's car the other day and it started it up no problem.

I've got spark and fuel verified by wet spark plugs and smoke coming out when I remove a plug. I swapped plugs for good measure with a known unfouled set.

The problem seems to be that I cant get my motor to crank fast enough to catch anymore. Could it be my starter is now dead? I recharged the battery, its showing 12.7 volts as it sits. I even jump it to our other car while i'm cranking it but it just doesn't spin fast enough. Maybe 160rpms tops according to tuner studio.

Thoughts? Could I actually have a bottom end problem afterall? Is my starter shitting the bed? Is it possible that the crank case is full of raw fuel now from leaking past the rings so that its locking the engine up that way? The oil looks suspiciously clean but not over full on the dip stick. I'm guessing its fairly diluted with fuel at this point.

Should I give up and buy a geo?
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:32 PM   #2
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No.

How hard is it to turn the engine over by hand? Try a push start?

Starter, potentially.
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:34 PM   #3
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I've always been told the three major things to look at are spark, fuel, and timing if an engine doesn't start. Your belt could have slipped quite a bit when it locked up. After that check compression.
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:37 PM   #4
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I've always been told the three major things to look at are spark, fuel, and timing if an engine doesn't start. Your belt could have slipped quite a bit when it locked up. After that check compression.
I guess a compression test is the next big step. The guy who was driving the car when it locked tried to compression start it when the cylinders were full of fuel so i guess it is possible (though unlikely) the timing belt jumped teeth.
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Old 05-05-2010, 06:16 PM   #5
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How could it jump teeth?

Starter turns the flywheel which is bolted to the crank. When the crank stops moving due to hydrostatic lock, the crank timing gear stops moving at the same time. I guess it is possible for the belt to have slipped but it seems unlikely IMO.

OOOPS I just noticed that the car was being driven at the point that it hydro-locked.

I would definitely check compression and crank/cam timing. I hope you didn't bend a rod. Keep us posted on what you find. hopefully it is something simple.

Yes you need to change the oil. It is cheap insurance!!
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Old 05-05-2010, 06:26 PM   #6
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Could he have sheared the woodruff key? I'm trying to figure out the backwards order of forces that would of happened when it locked up, and I'm having issues thinking of what would experience the brunt of the impact. TDC and timing should be easy enough to figure out.
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Old 05-05-2010, 06:29 PM   #7
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Could he have sheared the woodruff key? I'm trying to figure out the backwards order of forces that would of happened when it locked up, and I'm having issues thinking of what would experience the brunt of the impact. TDC and timing should be easy enough to figure out.
I talked to no less than 35 people about it at the event and ideas ranged from "you're definitely fucked" and "your engine is fine". The most common consensus is that all 4 cyls locking at the same time would have spread the force out enough that it would have just locked up the wheels (which it did) before anything was damaged. This is all speculation of course though.

Someone is coming over to help me push it up into my garage where i'm going to do some closer inspection and troubleshooting including changing the oil, checking timing and compression checking. My starter has been suspect for quite a while now so i'm considering finding one of those as well.

Edit: I hadn't even suspected the woodruff key yet. Thats a good idea.
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Old 05-05-2010, 06:31 PM   #8
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Could he have sheared the woodruff key? I'm trying to figure out the backwards order of forces that would of happened when it locked up, and I'm having issues thinking of what would experience the brunt of the impact. TDC and timing should be easy enough to figure out.
Seems like the rods would bear the brunt of the force to stop it from spinning.

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Old 05-05-2010, 06:45 PM   #9
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Yeah the cams would only follow the crank, they wouldn't put much force on it. Don't forget to get an NB starter to save a couple pounds.
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Old 05-05-2010, 06:51 PM   #10
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Yeah the cams would only follow the crank, they wouldn't put much force on it. Don't forget to get an NB starter to save a couple pounds.
I will be getting whatever is cheapest/freeest
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Old 05-05-2010, 07:19 PM   #11
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I will be getting whatever is cheapest/freeest
I have an NA starter I think you can have. But usually the problem is not the starter. I have found even a battery has 12v still wont start your car well if it has other issues. The NA starters have a bigger kick to them with more torque than the NB starters as well I think.

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Old 05-05-2010, 07:46 PM   #12
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I just drained my oil and it was a mess. It was absolutely full of fuel. Seemed like even more fuel than oil to be honest. It came out with a lot of force and splashed out of the can. I picked up something chunky and black off the floor but i'm not sure if it came out of the engine or was sitting in the top of my drain pan from when I drained the oil out of my blown 1.6 diff.

So my theory of the crank case being so full it resisted cranking must have been true. I need to go to the store for more oil before I find out for sure though.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:28 PM   #13
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I would run a compression test before you fire it up. If you bent a con rod, all hell could break loose if you fire it up. Just a thought.
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Old 05-05-2010, 11:29 PM   #14
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Pretty sure the motor is toast. With the plugs out it takes 80% of my strength to turn it over. I've gotten out of shape since I built this, but not that bad! Probably trying to start it with a crank case full of fuel ruined stuff.
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Old 05-05-2010, 11:34 PM   #15
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With the plugs out I can more or less easily turn my crank with a standard rachet. Then again I'm built like a greek god. Sorry to hear about your bad luck. Check piston heights to make sure they're all equal and still check timing.
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Old 05-05-2010, 11:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
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With the plugs out I can more or less easily turn my crank with a standard rachet. Then again I'm built like a greek god. Sorry to hear about your bad luck. Check piston heights to make sure they're all equal and still check timing.
Timing is fine. It honestly takes too much effort to even bother checking piston heights.

Thanks for your kind thoughts
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Old 05-05-2010, 11:42 PM   #17
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Start the tear down. If he gets off his ***, cueball1 should have a shitty 1.8 available soon.
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Old 05-05-2010, 11:47 PM   #18
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Start the tear down. If he gets off his ***, cueball1 should have a shitty 1.8 available soon.
I think I have a hook on a GTX short block from bbundy. It would just cost too much for me to upgrade to a 1.8 at this point. I'm a poor [wannabe] student

I'm going to go out and waste $ on margaritas tonight!
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Old 05-06-2010, 02:12 AM   #19
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With the plugs out I can more or less easily turn my crank with a standard rachet. Then again I'm built like a greek god. Sorry to hear about your bad luck. Check piston heights to make sure they're all equal and still check timing.
Wut? Why is it more difficult to turn the crank with the plugs in???
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Old 05-06-2010, 03:21 AM   #20
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Cause you should have compression fighting against you. Should be really easy with the plugs out, you're just fighting the piston ring friction and valve springs.
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