MZR DISI Turbo Swap: Can It Be Done?
09-28-2009, 10:40 AM
#61
lol...we really don't need a banstick yet, we'll run him off soon.
Want to go drag racing? Buy another car. You're sounding like a 15yr old keyboard cowboy with ideas and no money...or logic There is another Miata engine that has the same output as the NC's 2.0L and drops right into the NA....but obviously you're so stuck on the MZ i'm not going to bother telling you. There is another 2.0L 4 cylinder that isn't too hard of a swap into a Miata....hell, there has even been one guy who had a V6.
I don't really see anyone doing too much with the MZ because of Mazda's retarded ECU. No one is going to care to really crack it because there are much better swaps out there for the money.
Want to go drag racing? Buy another car. You're sounding like a 15yr old keyboard cowboy with ideas and no money...or logic There is another Miata engine that has the same output as the NC's 2.0L and drops right into the NA....but obviously you're so stuck on the MZ i'm not going to bother telling you. There is another 2.0L 4 cylinder that isn't too hard of a swap into a Miata....hell, there has even been one guy who had a V6.
I don't really see anyone doing too much with the MZ because of Mazda's retarded ECU. No one is going to care to really crack it because there are much better swaps out there for the money.
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09-28-2009, 11:11 AM
#62
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The Miata is always the underdog and most of these guys are used to being defensive about their cars. You would think that as much as our cars are always "different" from the mainstream that our members would be receptive to people trying modifications that are also different from our mainstream.
Another possible problem with the MS3 engine is that it is fly by wire and has no throttle cable. The computer partially closes the throttle whenever it decides it wants or needs to...
A BP engine with forged internals is capable of holding a lot of power. You will really need to work on airflow to make that power. Get the '99-'00 head (which breathes better) and do porting, oversize valves, and larger cams. Since you are only racing, I would use very low compression pistons that would allow you to use even more boost pressure without worry of detonation. An aftermarket intake manifold will be required (there are a few choices). And supporting mods in the rest of the drivetrain will be neccessary. You will likely need a turbo that maintains its efficiency at high PRs to get the most out of it. Are you allowed to use nitrous in that class?
Do you run at Lakeland, Sunshine, or Bradenton? I actually live out in Plant City now.
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09-28-2009, 11:22 AM
#63
Letting someone else eat the development costs and come to market with some useful workarounds and parts appeals to me. I'm always appreciative of the work that goes into pioneering new ways of doing things, but not willing to be the guy to spend the big money on R&D. I think that most of the guys here are inherently looking for "bang for the buck" or they would be driving more conventional sportscars.
The Miata is always the underdog and most of these guys are used to being defensive about their cars. You would think that as much as our cars are always "different" from the mainstream that our members would be receptive to people trying modifications that are also different from our mainstream.
Another possible problem with the MS3 engine is that it is fly by wire and has no throttle cable. The computer partially closes the throttle whenever it decides it wants or needs to...
A BP engine with forged internals is capable of holding a lot of power. You will really need to work on airflow to make that power. Get the '99-'00 head (which breathes better) and do porting, oversize valves, and larger cams. Since you are only racing, I would use very low compression pistons that would allow you to use even more boost pressure without worry of detonation. An aftermarket intake manifold will be required (there are a few choices). And supporting mods in the rest of the drivetrain will be neccessary. You will likely need a turbo that maintains its efficiency at high PRs to get the most out of it. Are you allowed to use nitrous in that class?
Do you run at Lakeland, Sunshine, or Bradenton? I actually live out in Plant City now.
The Miata is always the underdog and most of these guys are used to being defensive about their cars. You would think that as much as our cars are always "different" from the mainstream that our members would be receptive to people trying modifications that are also different from our mainstream.
Another possible problem with the MS3 engine is that it is fly by wire and has no throttle cable. The computer partially closes the throttle whenever it decides it wants or needs to...
A BP engine with forged internals is capable of holding a lot of power. You will really need to work on airflow to make that power. Get the '99-'00 head (which breathes better) and do porting, oversize valves, and larger cams. Since you are only racing, I would use very low compression pistons that would allow you to use even more boost pressure without worry of detonation. An aftermarket intake manifold will be required (there are a few choices). And supporting mods in the rest of the drivetrain will be neccessary. You will likely need a turbo that maintains its efficiency at high PRs to get the most out of it. Are you allowed to use nitrous in that class?
Do you run at Lakeland, Sunshine, or Bradenton? I actually live out in Plant City now.
I run at Bradenton and Lakeland mostly. I just put a ported, valved, and springed 99 head on the car this weekend. I should have it running in a couple of days. It is carberated (Webers) running with no power adders. Nitrous is my power adder of choice.
We have to meet at the track sometime.
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09-28-2009, 11:33 AM
#64
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Did you change the cams on that head?
I just sold a nearly new 45DCOE on ebay from my Austin Healey build that I am now un-building.
Will the rules in the class you are wanting to run in allow nitrous? If so, you can spool a mighty big turbo on that engine with the aid of 100+hp of nitrous.
I just sold a nearly new 45DCOE on ebay from my Austin Healey build that I am now un-building.
Will the rules in the class you are wanting to run in allow nitrous? If so, you can spool a mighty big turbo on that engine with the aid of 100+hp of nitrous.
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09-28-2009, 02:59 PM
#65
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Me having both cars...... IMO no, dont take it the wrong way, but your retarded even considering this.
I am on my second motor with the speed 6 (just bolt on) on a stock turbo I blew my motor.
To answer your question, the motor is direct injected, so the fuel rail does on the head, not the intake manifold, therefore no its not a miata head, not 2.3, duratec head. Its an MZR DISI head.
IMO mazda's direct injection sucks, the motor is great, beefy forged rods, strong pistons, but still people blow their motor (rods give out) because of heat and knock under partial load. Mazda had one purpose for this car, good fuel economy and great emissions. Take those two and that means crappy power output, and nobody can completely understand this ECU, cobb is doing good, but still theyre not 100% there.
I dont think your mechanic knows this motor, its only been around for 3 years and people were blowing, tearing it apart, rebuilding and blowing them again just to understand the weak point and try to fix them, to this day there no complete understanding as to how and why motors blow while your at partial throttle!
Just like everybody else said, V8.
I am on my second motor with the speed 6 (just bolt on) on a stock turbo I blew my motor.
To answer your question, the motor is direct injected, so the fuel rail does on the head, not the intake manifold, therefore no its not a miata head, not 2.3, duratec head. Its an MZR DISI head.
IMO mazda's direct injection sucks, the motor is great, beefy forged rods, strong pistons, but still people blow their motor (rods give out) because of heat and knock under partial load. Mazda had one purpose for this car, good fuel economy and great emissions. Take those two and that means crappy power output, and nobody can completely understand this ECU, cobb is doing good, but still theyre not 100% there.
I dont think your mechanic knows this motor, its only been around for 3 years and people were blowing, tearing it apart, rebuilding and blowing them again just to understand the weak point and try to fix them, to this day there no complete understanding as to how and why motors blow while your at partial throttle!
Just like everybody else said, V8.
OP...there are more reliable swaps out there, and if you do this..you wil have tons of tq, but the motor doesnt REV for ****. I mean...it redlines @ 6750, but power drops off @ 5500. with a cobb access port, you can pull hard till redline, but your askin for trouble on this disi motor.
check out MazdaSpeed Forums and read up on the the pro and cons about the motor and peeople fails and sucess stories.
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09-28-2009, 09:26 PM
#67
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I own a Mazdaspeed 3 and they are great out of the box and with light mods. But when you start trying to reach that 300WHP..reliability goes out of the window. Our guys are stuggling to make 350whp with GT40/35R's, 3071/76's. this motor alone wont support 350whp without needing to go fully forged and yet, when you do, power isnt that good. I think the most HP MZR Disi is around 433whp.
368awhp with ATP bcd and MBC
then he made 380 with cp-e's standback.
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09-28-2009, 10:14 PM
#69
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HeY!!1!2@
How hardd wuold itbe to put a GEO mEtro enjine in my maita?????
I hav one in my bakyard that i coud use itjust neds a crank!!!!
i also wnt to put like a GT40R on it! how much boosts psi do you thnk i can run?!
How hardd wuold itbe to put a GEO mEtro enjine in my maita?????
I hav one in my bakyard that i coud use itjust neds a crank!!!!
i also wnt to put like a GT40R on it! how much boosts psi do you thnk i can run?!
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09-29-2009, 12:00 AM
#70
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MS3 is front wheel
MS6 is all wheel other then little differences in ECU they are the same, so technically MS3 with same setup should be putting down 410 wheel at least if same engine put down 380 pushing 4 wheels.
MS6 is all wheel other then little differences in ECU they are the same, so technically MS3 with same setup should be putting down 410 wheel at least if same engine put down 380 pushing 4 wheels.
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09-29-2009, 01:11 AM
#71
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And the 09 ECU's are even little more different from the 07-08's
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09-29-2009, 07:55 AM
#72
Did you change the cams on that head?
I just sold a nearly new 45DCOE on ebay from my Austin Healey build that I am now un-building.
Will the rules in the class you are wanting to run in allow nitrous? If so, you can spool a mighty big turbo on that engine with the aid of 100+hp of nitrous.
I just sold a nearly new 45DCOE on ebay from my Austin Healey build that I am now un-building.
Will the rules in the class you are wanting to run in allow nitrous? If so, you can spool a mighty big turbo on that engine with the aid of 100+hp of nitrous.
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09-29-2009, 08:10 AM
#73
I own a Mazdaspeed 3 and they are great out of the box and with light mods. But when you start trying to reach that 300WHP..reliability goes out of the window. Our guys are stuggling to make 350whp with GT40/35R's, 3071/76's. this motor alone wont support 350whp without needing to go fully forged and yet, when you do, power isnt that good. I think the most HP MZR Disi is around 433whp.
Cobb is doing well, but only able to modify tables like Megasquirt. Can't even touch the logic cuz it so damn complex. We have tons of peeps trying to crack it on our forum. no luck , but it will eventually happen and then we can better tune for partial throttle knock (5 psi + 14.0 AFR's is fail)
OP...there are more reliable swaps out there, and if you do this..you wil have tons of tq, but the motor doesnt REV for ****. I mean...it redlines @ 6750, but power drops off @ 5500. with a cobb access port, you can pull hard till redline, but your askin for trouble on this disi motor.
check out MazdaSpeed Forums and read up on the the pro and cons about the motor and peeople fails and sucess stories.
Cobb is doing well, but only able to modify tables like Megasquirt. Can't even touch the logic cuz it so damn complex. We have tons of peeps trying to crack it on our forum. no luck , but it will eventually happen and then we can better tune for partial throttle knock (5 psi + 14.0 AFR's is fail)
OP...there are more reliable swaps out there, and if you do this..you wil have tons of tq, but the motor doesnt REV for ****. I mean...it redlines @ 6750, but power drops off @ 5500. with a cobb access port, you can pull hard till redline, but your askin for trouble on this disi motor.
check out MazdaSpeed Forums and read up on the the pro and cons about the motor and peeople fails and sucess stories.
Here is a question. Has anyone ditched the ecu, intake, injectors, and put aftermarket induction on it. Does the bottom end hold up? The reving problem can be solved by installing the Cosworth cyl head and larger camshafts. I know they are available.
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09-29-2009, 11:16 AM
#74
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No one to my knowledge has dared to ditch the ECU. I know there is an Intake manifold in the works, not sure whos making it. This big problem with this motor really are the internals and fueling. PTP makes the best fuel pump (Cam type). We need more fuel and disi isnt allowing us to get it. There a couple of people working on adding extra injectors like a normal engine. we will see how it goes. I'm sure the cosy head and cams flow well, and the engine itself revs fine, it just that the turbo dies off and you would really need a 3071 or bigger to get more power up top.
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09-29-2009, 11:50 AM
#75
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Stock Injector on MRZ will hold up to planty of power.
If you are sereous about doing 2.3L swap, heres how you do it.
Get MZR block throw forged rods and pistons on it, mazda 3 head and fab your manifolds, get a standalone, and mazdaspeed 6 speed trans from either ms3 or ms6
With mazda 3 head youll have conventional fuel injection and mzr forged strong bottom end. with that setup and stock 6speed trans (with upgraded cluth) you can put down about 550whp with gt35r
Basically what you are doing is converting direct injected motor into regular manifold injection.
If you are sereous about doing 2.3L swap, heres how you do it.
Get MZR block throw forged rods and pistons on it, mazda 3 head and fab your manifolds, get a standalone, and mazdaspeed 6 speed trans from either ms3 or ms6
With mazda 3 head youll have conventional fuel injection and mzr forged strong bottom end. with that setup and stock 6speed trans (with upgraded cluth) you can put down about 550whp with gt35r
Basically what you are doing is converting direct injected motor into regular manifold injection.
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09-29-2009, 07:03 PM
#76
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Stock Injector on MRZ will hold up to planty of power.
If you are sereous about doing 2.3L swap, heres how you do it.
Get MZR block throw forged rods and pistons on it, mazda 3 head and fab your manifolds, get a standalone, and mazdaspeed 6 speed trans from either ms3 or ms6
With mazda 3 head youll have conventional fuel injection and mzr forged strong bottom end. with that setup and stock 6speed trans (with upgraded cluth) you can put down about 550whp with gt35r
Basically what you are doing is converting direct injected motor into regular manifold injection.
If you are sereous about doing 2.3L swap, heres how you do it.
Get MZR block throw forged rods and pistons on it, mazda 3 head and fab your manifolds, get a standalone, and mazdaspeed 6 speed trans from either ms3 or ms6
With mazda 3 head youll have conventional fuel injection and mzr forged strong bottom end. with that setup and stock 6speed trans (with upgraded cluth) you can put down about 550whp with gt35r
Basically what you are doing is converting direct injected motor into regular manifold injection.
Very good idea. Cuz the MZ3 guys are getting over 500whp now . regular fuel injection FTW.
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10-06-2009, 07:56 AM
#77
Miata2Fast, if you want to go a route that a few others have..and stay all motor, look into a 'Rican-built 13B swap. A p-ported 13B with a little laughing gas will go a very long way to making big power.
If I had my choice of swaps, i'd do a 20B 3-rotor with S5 rotors and a bridgeport..running n/a it can easily make 375rwhp+
Now throw a turbo on it and 600+ is attainable
If I had my choice of swaps, i'd do a 20B 3-rotor with S5 rotors and a bridgeport..running n/a it can easily make 375rwhp+
Now throw a turbo on it and 600+ is attainable
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10-06-2009, 09:30 AM
#78
Miata2Fast, if you want to go a route that a few others have..and stay all motor, look into a 'Rican-built 13B swap. A p-ported 13B with a little laughing gas will go a very long way to making big power.
If I had my choice of swaps, i'd do a 20B 3-rotor with S5 rotors and a bridgeport..running n/a it can easily make 375rwhp+
Now throw a turbo on it and 600+ is attainable
If I had my choice of swaps, i'd do a 20B 3-rotor with S5 rotors and a bridgeport..running n/a it can easily make 375rwhp+
Now throw a turbo on it and 600+ is attainable
I have seen an all motor 20b in a lightweight chassis go 5's in the eighth mile. That is usually good for mid to low 9's or faster in the quarter. They sound wicked too. I think however, that they are banned in most classes that I would have any chance of competing in.
There has been 13b equiped cars that have won championships in drag racing. I am not exactly fond of the way they sound however.
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