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Old 11-09-2011, 09:57 AM   #41
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I'm going to the dyno later this week, and intend on doing a run, with the butterflies in reversed position (open at low rpm, and closed at high rpm), to see what the HP difference is. I would expect there to be a larger difference with a turbo.
Wrong test. Do a pull open. Then do a pull closed. Lay the plots on top of each other. Your switch point is where the lines cross.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:38 AM   #42
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Yes, with a turbo, you should have constant boost, so the engine will be flowing more air, which means more power.

With a positive displacement supercharger, it's a little different. The supercharger will pump almost the same amount of air with 2 psi reduction in backpressure (boost).
And... would the supercharger would generate less heat for the same amount of air?
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:54 AM   #43
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hmm this is interesting, can't wait to see results
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Old 11-09-2011, 03:11 PM   #44
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Will this testing include an unmolested JDM/sqare top manifold ?
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Old 11-09-2011, 06:20 PM   #45
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Any interest in tackling a Honda/Mazda hybrid manifold?
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Old 11-09-2011, 06:38 PM   #46
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Will this testing include an unmolested JDM/sqare top manifold ?
Puke
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Old 11-09-2011, 07:02 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oreo View Post

(it also increases boost at 2500rpm, so I am controlling the valve with a MS)
details please:

how are you controlling the valve? [by either opening or shutting the vacuum to the actuator or by switching a solenoid that controls the vacuum]

what is the switch over point? [rpm, vacuum, or both]

TIA
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Old 11-09-2011, 07:26 PM   #48
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Wrong test. Do a pull open. Then do a pull closed. Lay the plots on top of each other. Your switch point is where the lines cross.
This is a good test, but I know what rpm to transition the manifold at. I just want to know what the power difference would be.

Valve control:
I have a vac line, passing thru a 1 way valve, to an accumilator(I am using a small fuel filter). This gives me a steady vac source. This goes to a 3 way valve, which came off a stock Miata. The common port of the valve goes to the vac actuator on the manifold. The other port on the valve is vented to atmosphere. (I'll post a pic, but have to head out of the house now..)
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Old 11-09-2011, 08:01 PM   #49
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This is a good test, but I know what rpm to transition the manifold at. I just want to know what the power difference would be.
My test shows you precisely what the power difference is when you compare the 2 plots. Showing the ideal switchpoint can be considered a side bonus.
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:43 AM   #50
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Puke
Just wondering if 01 Euro means square top. They are so hyped now that it's about time someone did a proper dyno comparison.

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I've got the 99 and an 01 Euro manifold ready to go.
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Old 11-10-2011, 07:25 AM   #51
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Here is the valve and associated components to control the IM actuator. The IM actuator, needs to have vacuum to close the IM plates, and no vacuum to open them. The clear hose goes to the air filter. When the valve is unpowered, this port is connected to the IM actuator. The one way valve (green/white) is connected to a vac source, and then an small fuel filter, which stores vacuum. The vacuum storage may not be necessary, however I added it, to ensure that there was always plenty of vacuum available...




Quote:
My test shows you precisely what the power difference is when you compare the 2 plots. Showing the ideal switchpoint can be considered a side bonus.
Both methods do precisely that. Here is what you would see using each method.


To reverse the action of the valve, I just need to tick a box in the MS software, to reverse the polarity of the valve control signal. I also need to have a different VE table for the different settings of the IM actuator, otherwise the car will run rich which will make the test results not comparable.

Quote:
Just wondering if 01 Euro means square top. They are so hyped now that it's about time someone did a proper dyno comparison.
If I had one of these, I would first put it on the car, and determine if it was flowing better. With an aftermarket computer, you can see how much extra fuel (VE) you need to add, to maintain the same AFR. By looking at amount of additional fuel you need to add, you can determine if you should be seeing a power gain worthy of taking it to the dyno.... Othewise, you could be spending $$, used better elsewhere.
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Old 11-10-2011, 08:07 AM   #52
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very helpful info - thank you - from your posts I gather that you are switching [closing?] the butterfly valves at about 2500 rpm; was that just an arbitrary selection or based on some fact-base info - looks like the VE adjustment method could also be a way to determine the switch point
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:45 PM   #53
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Any interest in tackling a Honda/Mazda hybrid manifold?
We have been doing some reading up on it and playing with some we have in stock here...do you just need one ported or looking at making the hybrid?

-Sam
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Old 11-10-2011, 07:35 PM   #54
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Here ya go bitzchezzz

http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/dyno_runs/99_050400.pdf

Green would be closed, blue would be open, and red would be the combo.
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Old 11-10-2011, 07:55 PM   #55
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so

< 3500 rpm = green, closed
3500 - 5500 = blue, open
5500 < = green, closed

wonder if adding the 3-dimension [vacuum] has any impact?
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Old 11-10-2011, 08:17 PM   #56
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I'm assuming the difference on a turbo motor would be much bigger. This is the stock vics manifold btw, not gutted.
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Old 11-10-2011, 08:57 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renown Performance View Post
We have been doing some reading up on it and playing with some we have in stock here...do you just need one ported or looking at making the hybrid?

-Sam
Just ported, the halves are already joined. Porting would be an especially good idea in this case since there is a definite obstruction at the splice.
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:03 PM   #58
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Awesome work, can't wait to see the results. What kind of cost and turn around would it take to get a manifold ported like that?
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:44 PM   #59
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There is a place that does something like this, the force mud thru the intake mani under 7-3000psi to debur anything including intakes and heads
http://www.extrudehone.com/
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Old 11-15-2011, 03:46 PM   #60
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We can definitely port out that Hybrid manifold!

Turnaround time is about a week and a half, and cost is $400 for a fully ported manifold like these.

-Sam
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