so I let my brother borrow my car... - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Engine Performance This section is for discussion on all engine building related questions.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-14-2010, 03:37 PM   #21
meatbag
Thread Starter
iTrader: (50)
 
gospeed81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,357
Total Cats: 26
Default

I'm going to swap in hustler's old motor to get me through the semester. Now I need to decide what to do with the other 2 motors I'll have sitting in the garage since his was low on power...and power is what I'll be looking for.

I have one motor with block and head seperate, and my motor which will be coming out in intact. I would like to rebuild both of them on the cheap, but things are adding up quick. What parts HAVE to be replaced (bearings, cam seals, head bolts etc)?


If I do it myself I was planning on:

new rings
head gasket

hone cylinders
clean lifters
port and polish
clean valves, lap seats


If I can get away with this I would like to rebuild both spares, install one, and sell the other one cheap to someone in need just to offset costs.

Once I start looking at sending things out for machining I might as well build the sucker. I'm almost to that point now with all the incidentals (near complete FM kit is $612 without rings or water pump!). Then I start thinking about a new clutch...etc etc etc. Where does it end?

Once the price of forged rods, pistons, and professional assembly is equivalent to the cost of necessary items for a garage rebuild I will decide to just build it anyway.
gospeed81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 03:57 PM   #22
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,107
Total Cats: 518
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
Where does it end?.
Right between the forged oil pump gears and new flywheel/clutch, below the powdercoated valve cover and right above the tubular subframe. Dimentionally speaking of course. Fiscally, somewhere around $10-$30k.
curly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 05:15 PM   #23
meatbag
Thread Starter
iTrader: (50)
 
gospeed81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,357
Total Cats: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Right between the forged oil pump gears and new flywheel/clutch, below the powdercoated valve cover and right above the tubular subframe. Dimentionally speaking of course. Fiscally, somewhere around $10-$30k.
I'm just going to keep blowing up old 1.6Ls and picking them up on CL cheap then.
gospeed81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 06:33 PM   #24
meatbag
Thread Starter
iTrader: (50)
 
gospeed81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,357
Total Cats: 26
Default

So what's the cheapest someone has done a full refresh/rebuild for, including specialty tools?


I've seen Brainy mention cheap parts (timing belt, wp, and gaskets) but haven't seen a breakdown of his peripheral costs and machining.
gospeed81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 07:35 PM   #25
meatbag
Thread Starter
iTrader: (50)
 
gospeed81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,357
Total Cats: 26
Default

I'm thinking about going this route:

Eagle Rods Wiseco Pistons Mazda Miata 323 GTX 1.6l B6 on eBid.net United States

Rods and Pistons for $829. I've always heard about the $300 M-Tuned rods and <$400 SuperTech pistons, but it looks like I missed out on some group buys.

EDIT: Nevermind, still cheaper to get M-Tuned rods, and SuperTechs from Speedagency.
gospeed81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 07:40 PM   #26
meatbag
Thread Starter
iTrader: (50)
 
gospeed81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,357
Total Cats: 26
Default

Can I get away with just rods and not pistons if I only want to see a little over 250whp?
gospeed81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 07:45 PM   #27
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Renton Washington
Posts: 1,742
Total Cats: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
Can I get away with just rods and not pistons if I only want to see a little over 250whp?

Ya but if your in there might as well loweer the compression.
SKMetalworks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 07:56 PM   #28
meatbag
Thread Starter
iTrader: (50)
 
gospeed81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,357
Total Cats: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKMetalworks View Post
Ya but if your in there might as well loweer the compression.
I was just gonna dremel a little of the top of the pistons and the combustion chamber and save myself $400.



I'm compiling a spreadsheet of 3 rebuild paths right now. It's not pretty.
gospeed81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 08:26 PM   #29
Elite Member
iTrader: (28)
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: St. Augustine FL
Posts: 2,310
Total Cats: 2
Default

well keep me updated as well!!
p51hellfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2010, 08:34 PM   #30
meatbag
Thread Starter
iTrader: (50)
 
gospeed81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,357
Total Cats: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by p51hellfire View Post
well keep me updated as well!!

After finding the cheapest of the essentials and summing them up I think I'm just doing a rebuild/refresh.


Piston Rings $66
RockAuto Parts Catalog

Bearings $29
New 92 Mazda Miata Main Bearing Set - Crankshaft & Main Convertible Parts

Honing Tool $33
Honing Tool, Bore Dia 3.25 In, 120 Grit - Honing Brushes - Finishing Supplies - Power Tools & Metalworking : Grainger Industrial Supply

Head Gasket Set $52
Mazda Miata Head Gasket Set at 1AAuto.com.


Grand total of $180...which I think I can handle.

That and the forged internal numbers absolutely scare me. I think I'd try an FE3 swap before I dropped that kind of coin on a B6.

Anything I'm missing?
gospeed81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 08:59 AM   #31
meatbag
Thread Starter
iTrader: (50)
 
gospeed81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,357
Total Cats: 26
Default

Screw it!

I'm seriously researching the FE3 swap...damn you Mr.2cars1cup.

I'm going to swap hustler's 1.6L in long enough to do a cheap refresh on one of the other 1.6Ls...and hope that that motor holds together long enough for me to finish the FE3 conversion.

I've already emailed about every Sportage engine and B2000 tranny I've seen on CL...and was surprised how many I saw and how cheap they are.

I can make the motor mount adapter plates and notch the oilpan here at work since both are mild steel.

CAS might be tough...but I'll just send flowers to our FE3 swap board member for his pointers or a possible PnP.

Intake and Exhaust manifolds will be the tough and expensive parts...and I'll probably have to drive it n/a until I can sell my 1.6L kit and buy a decent turbo. At ~170hp I can probably hold off.

Plumbing, Electrical, Sensors and Brackets I can handle....and considering I work at a fastener company I'm sure I can scrounge what I need to shim the subframe.

Stock 5spd will have to do for now.



If I can pull off just the motor swap for less than $2K over the next 6months I can dew eet.


EDIT: Only other real concern I've come up with is the injectors. I need to find out if they're the same as the Miata/RX7 ones, or a different size.
gospeed81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 11:54 AM   #32
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 3,110
Total Cats: 127
Default

stop, just do a refresh on one of the 1.6's and finish school

Jake
jacob300zx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 12:00 PM   #33
meatbag
Thread Starter
iTrader: (50)
 
gospeed81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,357
Total Cats: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob300zx View Post
stop, just do a refresh on one of the 1.6's and finish school

Jake


You made baby Jesus cry.
gospeed81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 12:14 PM   #34
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Central-ish VA
Posts: 4,449
Total Cats: 16
Default

Too bad you didn't message me 3 years ago about FE3...oh wait you weren't a member then. I had all the parts you needed including the jdm cam and the cas conversion I got from Randy. I never went through it and no one wanted the parts. I threw them all in a dumpster....
neogenesis2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 12:23 PM   #35
meatbag
Thread Starter
iTrader: (50)
 
gospeed81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,357
Total Cats: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
I threw them all in a dumpster....
WTF?

Why?

Yeah, I should have joined this place much earlier...I also shouldn't have let go of this car the first time I had it 8yrs ago. I fought with my family for a year to get it back this time around...and ain't letting it go.

An FE3 would make it a family heirloom to me.


The CAS and intake manifold have me thinking twice, but Rob makes it look easy. He also apparently has a real eye for detail and great fabrication skills.
gospeed81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 12:35 PM   #36
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Central-ish VA
Posts: 4,449
Total Cats: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
WTF?

Why?
Because I didn't have room for all that **** sitting around in my garage and I couldn't even give it away.
neogenesis2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 12:43 PM   #37
meatbag
Thread Starter
iTrader: (50)
 
gospeed81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,357
Total Cats: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
Because I didn't have room for all that **** sitting around in my garage and I couldn't even give it away.
Remember much about the hybrid CAS setup?
gospeed81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2010, 12:48 PM   #38
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Central-ish VA
Posts: 4,449
Total Cats: 16
Default

Randy used to have a page with it all detailed. I don't remember.
neogenesis2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 06:50 PM   #39
meatbag
Thread Starter
iTrader: (50)
 
gospeed81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,357
Total Cats: 26
Default

I've done enough reading on the FE3 swap that I feel like I can do it in my sleep...but I know that reality will be much different.

I've priced out everything but the intake manifold at just under $1400 for a n/a FE3 swap. Well, $1400 and a good bit of fabrication.

This is the low end for a decent built motor, which could easily inflate to $2500. Only advantage is I'd get to keep my turbo setup. With the FE3 I'd sell my 1.6L kit and piece together some eBay boost.

I'm now considering building a motor a little more...and wondering if I can get away with doing a good deal of the work myself.
gospeed81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 07:09 PM   #40
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Thanks for sending the hood my way. Make sure and drop some ATF down the cylinder walls before cranking on that old-*** 1.6.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
elesjuan's mediocre 95 Miata adventure (google fiber edition) elesjuan Build Threads 8 02-16-2016 09:36 PM
WTB HPDE miata - Texas Voltwings Cars for sale/trade 0 09-27-2015 07:40 PM
Twitchy car (tail happy problem) bigben Race Prep 16 09-11-2015 04:41 PM
Mandrel alum 90 bend alik General Miata Chat 18 09-02-2015 11:40 PM
Oil Change Story Ben Insert BS here 25 07-23-2007 12:47 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:23 AM.