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Old 08-08-2013, 06:44 AM   #1
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Default Vvt Engine Swap Into Mk1 Complete...but Won't Start :(

OK I've posted this on the UK MX5Nutz forum but thought I'd also post it here as you guys have done more VVT swaps.:-

Ok so the VVT engine is in, all the wiring is done, (correctly I think), a few settings changed on my Megasquirt from its previous 1.6 configuration, but the engine won't start... ):

Basically it tries to turnover, I have fuel and spark on all cylinders, (defiately spark) but the timing is way out. I get occasional bangs out the exhaust or bangs through the intake if I have the throttle open...!!!

Here is what I have done so far with the install:-

I am using the VVT Crank and Cam sensors which have been wired into the original MK1 Cam sensor wiring like so. http://www.miataturb...ing_1-6_vvt-jpg However the wiring on my VVT sensors was Black/Blue, (Violet White or Grey/Blue for signal), and Black, (Not White/red like the diagram). I therefore wired the black wires as +12V positive to the wire/red on the 1.6 harness.

The original trigger plate on the crank pully was damaged, (one of the nubs on the plate was bent), so I replaced the crank pulley complete with a trigger plate which I took from a MK2 engine.

I am using the VVT coils which I have wired into the 1.6 harness by gutting the original ignitor and soldering the VVT wires to the pins like this:- http://www.miataturb...p_schematic-jpg Except I have only earthed the coils to the head and not the old ignitor as well and there is also no tach output from the VVT coils, (am using the ECU output to rev counter). I am definitely getting a spark from all 4.

I have re-wired my injector harness from batch to sequential. Pretty sure I have done this correctly and I have fuel going into the engine hence the odd bang when cranking.



I have made the following changes to my Megasquirt ecu from its original MK1 1.6 settings:-

Re-calibrated Throttle position sensor
Changed required fuel to 11.6.
Changed injection to sequential
Imported a new VE table base map from Reverant for a VVT engine.

All other ECU settings are as per 1.6 map, (AFR table, ignition table, cranking settings etc).

I have re-set the Trigger angle offset back to 0 from 2.6 that was used on the 1.6 engine.

Am I messing anything obvious?
Could the crank sensor have been knocked slightly out of position when the engine was removed/palleted/installed and if so how can I check?



Thanks

Chris
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:16 AM   #2
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I have no clue about the wiring (since I never touched an NA and definitely not a 1.6), but have you verified that the timing plate is installed correctly (and not mirrored, if it was loose at any point)?
Reset the Crank Sensor gap to the thickness of a Credit Card ?

A composite log from TunerStudio?
This is what it should look like (but not overlapped of course)
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:11 AM   #3
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what does YOUR composite log look like?

what input circuits are you using?
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:28 AM   #4
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Did not think to take a log

What do you mean by input circuits? (sorry for being thick)

Bloody car is at my father in laws, 1.5hr drive away. Will try and get back there as soon as possible. Will check gap on Crank sensor and try cranking the engine whilst recording a log this time and post the results.
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:50 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krispe View Post
What do you mean by input circuits? (sorry for being thick)
what circuit is the cam sensor going into the MS CPU through?

what circuit is the crank sensor going into the MS CPU through?
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:36 AM   #6
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Hi Braineack

I've spliced the 01 cam sensor and crank sensor into the old 4 wire 1.6 harness CAM sensor connector. Shared +12v and Neg for both sensors, then wired the cam/crank signals into the corresponding pins on the old connector. I've tried swapping the pins round at the connector in case I got the +/- wrong or the cam/crank pins the wrong way round but when I do I then get no spark or pop/bang so think I have it right. My MS2 is a Reverant built with his PNP harness that connects to the original ECU connector.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:41 AM   #7
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did you switch your tune for 99-05 sensors?

depending on what circuit reverant built your MS2 for, you might have issues with your cam sensor.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:50 AM   #8
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Where do I switch tune for sensors? I emailed Reverant to ask what changes I need to make to my ECU from my original MK1 1.6 settings but all I've been told to change so far from emails, or posts on forums etc is just what I listed above, (required fuel, sequential and a new VE table base map)? I sent my MS2 back to Reverant for him to add his VVT module to it and then when I got it back, refitted it to my mk1.6 and drove the car fine before I did the VVT engine swap.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:52 AM   #9
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ignition settings. you need to change for 4g63 to miata 99-05
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:01 AM   #10
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OK, just checked my tune on my laptop which I have with me and my ignition settings are 4G63. Will change them to Miata 99/00. Unfortunaletly it will be a few days before I get back to my car to see if this make the difference.

Thanks again Braineack
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:45 PM   #11
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Ok changed ignition settings to Miata 99/00 and the car runs !!!

Now have new problem. Injector No.2 is not firing. No signal?? Have swapped injectors to confirm its not a problem with the injector. Have checked and rechecked wiring. I had converted the injector harness to sequential as part of the engine swap. The wiring tests ok from pin 2 on my MS2 harness all the way to the no.2 injector connector. 12V also ok at No.2 injector connector. It's like the ECU is not sending the signal to injector No.2

EDIT- INJECTOR NO.2 IS FINE AND SEQUENTIAL IS WORKING - I HAD NOT CHANGED ALL SETTINGS ON MY MS2 AND THEN REBOOTED ECU

Chris

Last edited by krispe; 08-19-2013 at 05:37 AM.
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Old 08-11-2013, 09:30 AM   #12
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NiklasFalk - My log looks a little different. One of the crank trigger lines looks like a double line? Also I don't seem to have a full advance on my log?

Looking at my trigger wheel on my crank pulley, one of the nubs has white mark on it like its been knocked and the black paint scuffed off, (but it does not look bad enough to cause a problem?? ) checked gap at 1mm between all 4 nubs and sensor.

Can someone interpret my composite log for me to see if my ECU is receiving the correct crank signal?


Thanks

Chris

Last edited by krispe; 08-19-2013 at 05:37 AM.
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krispe View Post
NiklasFalk - My log looks a little different. One of the crank trigger lines looks like a double line? Also I don't seem to have a full advance on my log?
The full advance in that picture is added to show the location of the signals when then VVT is in full advance, there is always four crank signals between the cam nubs.
I choose that picture because it show all at once.

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Old 08-11-2013, 11:14 AM   #14
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Thanks Niklas

Can you just check my composite log from the above link in my post to make sure the signal looks ok, (I think it is). Just so I know it's not a trigger wheel/crank sensor issue. In which case maybe my injector no. 2 not firing is down to the ECU driver for that injector as its the first time I've wired in no.2 as sequential, as previously I was just running from 1 and 3 for batch. If so I'll just re-wire back to batch and run the engine like that.

EDIT- INJECTOR NO.2 IS FINE AND SEQUENTIAL IS WORKING - I HAD NOT CHANGED ALL SETTINGS ON MY MS2 AND THEN REBOOTED ECU

Last edited by krispe; 08-19-2013 at 05:38 AM.
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Old 08-11-2013, 03:18 PM   #15
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The composite log looks to be with the cam nearly fully advanced. and it appears to be in sync.

I'm not experienced enough to see if the trigger disk is installed backwards using the log though.
A picture of the crank trigger area at TDC would answer that (one nub should just have passed the sensor then IIRC).
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Old 08-11-2013, 05:47 PM   #16
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Cheers Niklas

Either way it looks like my crank sensor is not the cause of my injector 2 not firing.

Does anyone know how i can test that my MS2 ecu is sending a signal for the injector?

Can I run batch injection on my 01 VVT engine and if so what are the drawbacks if any?

Thanks

Chris
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:23 AM   #17
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SEQ PW 4
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:51 AM   #18
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It appears i'm an idiot as i did not select "additional drivers" on the sequential injection settings in tunerstudio. Hence injector 2 not firing. Injector no. 4 which is firing must be getting a short from somewhere else? Will go and try the above later tonight.

Thanks again guys for the help so far hopefully by the end of tonight i'll have s fully working VVT Mk1 Miata!
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:59 AM   #19
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OK "additional drivers" made no difference, Injector 2 will not fire! Have check harness and circuit again only injectors 1,3,4 fire. So after hours trying to find the problem and 2 x 3hr round trips to get the car, I've wired back to batch and turned off sequential and all 4 injectors now fire. So we are staying batch!

EDIT - I DID NOT REBOOT ECU AFTER MAKING CHANGES WHICH IS WHY IT DID NOT WORK! NOW SORTED


Checked timing with a lamp, which was out by 10degrees, adjusted with the trigger offset, added a bit of fuel and it now idles smoothy at 14.0afr. Need to tidy up the wiring where I've re-wired back to batch, check for leaks etc and then start tuning the engine. Too late to make my trackday I'd booked this Friday but happy the car now runs well and the end is insight.

Chris

Last edited by krispe; 08-19-2013 at 05:40 AM.
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Old 08-13-2013, 08:18 AM   #20
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figure out the obvious fault in your wiring and go back to seq.
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