gtred

I will be refreshing my track car's motor and wish to find out more about the necessity of an upgraded oil pump. I've been using the OEM motor for many seasons now without problem, as have a "gaggle" of spec maita's. I'm using sane boost/power levels and reasonable RPM limits.

I would like to know if the billet oil pump is an idea that was brought over as "insurance" from other manufacturers failures (toyota, ect), or if there have actually been miata failures?

If there have been failures, at what hp/rpm levels did these occur.

Presently, OEM 10:1 cr, stock internals, stock damper, 250 whp, 7400 rpm cut. Refresh: forged internals, 9:1 cr, ATI damper, possible Kelford cam, dual valve springs; target 275hp, 7600 spark cut.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

use the search function and you'll find the documented failures.
for the rest it's insurance because you don't want to take a chance when you have 6 grand + under the hood

Savington

iTrader: (31)

Tell us more about how you're building a $6500 longblock yet don't want to spend the $170 for the upgraded oil pump.

codrus

The way I see it, a Boundary pump is something you buy instead of buying a new OEM pump when building a new engine. It's a small enough increase in cost that it's in the noise, and it's good insurance. I don't think I'd put one into an existing motor unless I had an oil pump that failed and miraculously didn't take out the rest of the engine at the same time.

--Ian

codrus

<deleted double post>

gtred

18 PSI: Yes, I did do a search, and only found this:https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...-thread-73672/

It seems like the failures that I could find on "search" were mostly caused from debris that cause the pressure relief valve to stick open. The pumps that destroyed themselves seemed to be caused by removal of the harmonic damper.

SAV: Aren't these more like $400? ... if I'm going to spend my $, even $170, then I'd like to find out find out what the actual facts are concerning the risk analysis for my application. Back to my basic question: has anyone ever blown an oil pump, unless they've done something wrong (like ran without a damper)?

18psi

iTrader: (76)

One of the cars I tuned has shattered the pump. Unopened oem engine, 250whp

Andrew (Savington) has broken at least 1. Many others have as well.

Girz0r

iTrader: (1)

This.

When I rebuilt mine, it wasn't a question. Why get another OEM when I know I'll be making more HP and abusing the motor. no ragrets.

patsmx5

iTrader: (16)

It is well documented that debris in the oil and not running a harmonic damper will result in a loss of oil pressure and bad things happening to the engine. On this forum the correct thing to say is a new forged gears oil pump is cheap insurance/why not/stock pumps suck. I think I've seen two threads this week of people having problems with aftermarket oil pumps (defects in manufacturing in both cases I believe) I've been amazingly lucky as I have spun several motors to 8,500-9,000 RPM with turbo/Supercharger/compound turbos, run high boost, and never had an oil pump failure ever. For a street driven car I give my car hell and have had no failure, no stuck relief valve, etc. That said if I ever build a new motor and get carried away and build what I'd like to build, I'm going to build a custom chain drive oil pump as that is a better design as the gears are no longer bending when the crank bends. This would be a lot of work though.

codrus

They are approx $170 more than a new OEM pump. Personally I wouldn't put a ??? mile used oil pump into a new motor, so it's only the delta between the OEM and Boundary pump that matters.

AIUI, oil pump failures have been seen as a result of running lots of power and higher revs, even with the stock damper still installed. An ATI damper is enough better than the stock one that it's possible that might be enough to eliminate this. Or it might not, so depends on how paranoid you are. There isn't a lot of data on this.

--Ian

gtred

Thanks. Just checking to insure that fixing a real problem, and just buying marketing.

MartinezA92

iTrader: (4)

Mine exploded at under 200 whp, 7k rev limit, and not a single track day on it. ~2 months of street driving.

I'd say its needed.

psyber_0ptix

iTrader: (4)

Don't run a new pump.

But you have to promise to post about it when something goes wrong so you can provide a newer case study for the next wave of forum members.

mmmjesse

If you get a BE pump, get it directly from them. Not through a vendor. They are amazing to deal with and will take care of you.

psyber_0ptix

iTrader: (4)

I agree with this statement.

Savington

iTrader: (31)

I think getting a BE pump from a good vendor is just as good as getting it directly from them. A vendor that ships in original packaging and doesn't muck with the pumps in-house, for instance.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

I like this idea

for science

mmmjesse

Yes, this works also. I didnt want to call out the exact vendor. We know you are a solid vendor unlike that one other one.

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

I got mine directly from Boundary, but Trackspeed is a reputable vendor you can trust. There's one I'm not so sure about whose name rhymes with "bad time" that has yielded mixed results. Some love and some hate them. Me? I'm just eating popcorn and sipping an ale.

Madjak

I think the whole oil pump exploding thing is a bit overstated. Miatas / MX5s have been raced since they first come out and a very large percentage of them don't run billet oil pump gears. The billet gears have only been available for the last 8 years or so anyway so what did we do before they existed? On here it's quoted as if it's a given that if you are building a built engine then you _have_ to run a billet pump or you'll destroy an engine. I would guess that in Australia, less than 1 in 20 built engines have them and we don't see massive numbers of destroyed gears, in fact I can't think of one I've seen in Oz.

The question comes down to how much do you like insurance... are you willing to spend a some extra coin to reduce the chance of grenading your engine. If you like to be safe then go for it... but you may as well buy a better throttle body, race bearings, ATI / SM damper etc etc as well. There is a point you have to stop.

How many shattered oil pump gears have there been? Anyone keen to take a shot at the total number of failures?
What about throttle shaft failures?
Melted pistons from bad tunes?
Melted / bent valves?
Failed rods? Failed bearings?

I would guess that the bottom four items on that list would outweigh the top two by an order of magnitude or more... if not two.

If I was building a $10k engine from scratch it would be a no brainer... put one in, budget isn't a concern. If I'm on a budget there are certain parts I'm willing to go without for other more important things, like dyno time or driver safety. Of course I haven't destroyed a oil pump yet... so my opinion on risk might change abruptly at any moment, but I like living on the ragged edge!