When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Alright, so the one thread that everyone seems to post to is kind of just one big thread jacking from one guy asking about a welder 7 years ago and seems kind of dead, so I figured I'd make one spot to get some quality information gathered together and have a place to show off your setup and work, as well as get advice on equipment and technique.
I just picked up a mig and a tig machine and will post when I have more time tonight, I'm interested to see what everyone else is using nowadays and how your machines have done over time.
Here are some things to start with if you'd like to contribute:
Post a picture of your welding setup, what equipment you like to use and why. How has it treated you over the years?
Show off some of your work.
Post up as you're learning and hopefully others will chime in to help.
Ask about equipment and technique.
Anything else welding related?
Alpha-Tig 200X (2015)
Lincoln Weld-Pak 155 Mig (had it forever)
I'm using the big Vulcan cabinet from HF, with casters on all four corners. This thing is great... lots of room for stuff, grinders, clamps, brushes, electrodes and cups, etc. And helmet and gloves. Currently using the new Vulcan helmet as well, and no complaints.
I'm definitely an amateur, and my welds aren't always the prettiest, but what I stick together stays stuck. I bought the MIG nearly 25 years ago, and it's always treated me well. I've always run it with gas, and on 220V. If I get everything nice and clean, and I'm on my game it lays a really nice bead. The TIG I bought in 2015, and I'm definitely still learning the art. My biggest issue is I don't use it enough. Every time I need to TIG something, I have to spend some time practicing and getting back into the swing of things. I usually don't TIG steel because it's a PITA compared to MIG. TIG is really nice for delicate work, though. The info available on the 'net is priceless... no way I could have self-learned TIG 20 years ago.
Some stuff I've built...
Bumpers, rock sliders and swingout tire/can carriers in steel on my Bronco:
Front bench in aluminum for our trailer:
Miata stuff:
Drop floor
Intake tubing
Exhaust
I'm currently working on an A-frame tow bar so we can flat tow our Bronco. Next year it will probably be cage time for our NA.
Location: Detroit (the part with no rules or laws)
Posts: 5,677
Total Cats: 800
Went through trade school, got half a dozen certs. Welded professionally for 6 years. But it got really boring and you have to make a sacrifice to either go ALL IN or get out. I opted out, just not enough money to be had without going all in.
When i welded professionally we always used Millers. In fact, that's all we have at work now. I hate them. They are always broke down and really the only worthwhile Miller is the 252. We had a Miller 350p that could spray transfer mig, that was nice. Parts are supposed to be quick and easy to get, but they're not. Consumables are used up FAST with all millers i've ever used. I also hate how you have to option a machine to make it worthwhile. A $6000 miller tig welder is BAD ***, only after you add $3000 worth of options on it.
When in school we always used ESAB machines. These are BY FAR the best machine money can buy. If you have an unlimited budget, buy one of these. Followed closely by AHP, they are great for those of us who work in the garage and fire up the welder every once in a while. I've used all the machines, you name it, i've used it. For some reason i can not explain, all machines are not alike.
So anyway, i own a Miller Mig(for 10+ years now). Multi voltage 211(older model). Multi voltage is KEY, i couldn't live without it. Mig welders run like TRASH on 120v and you're not going to convince me otherwise. But it's nice when you have to drag the rig to your grandmas house to build era correct railings in her historical house.
I also own the Everlast Powerpro 205. This machine has been a sweetheart for the 8 years i've owned it. Multi process, but only runs on 240v, which is fine. Torch sucks, upgrade it.
I don't have many pictures of my work because for some reason i don't build much from scratch. I'm usually just fixing busted junk. In fact, i feel like 90% of the welding i do at home now is just repairs.
She lives on the Detroit river. Do not want to pay her taxes...
I have a TON of pictures of work stuff, but most of it consisted of 3 days worth of setup and 15 minutes of welding. As seen by the crappy pre smartphone camera phone photo.
Edit*
Buy more clamps! Every time you go to a swap meet, garage sale, flea market, harbor freight, ect. Make sure you buy clamps. You can never have enough clamps. If you think you have enough clamps, you don't.
So I picked up a couple of welders recently and dove into the learning process.
Before I start on the welders I'll talk about gas cylinders, a lot of this stuff I didn't know. I originally bought a full 60cf tank of C25 mig gas for 100 bucks, not terrible. Tanks 80cf and below are almost always "owner" tanks and not rentals. Then I found out my local welding supply will exchange tanks based on the valve and tank specs and not just what gas was in it. So I started looking for nitrogen and helium tanks because most of those guys don't know what they have, and people looking for welding tanks don't usually use those search terms. I bought two more tanks, 280cf monsters, empty and expired hydro. One for 80 bucks the other for 100. But the 100 dollar tank was stamped on the top collar with the name of a welding shop, I didn't know it at the time but this indicates it's a rental and shops will refuse to fill it or if you accidentally go to the owner of it, they'll just confiscate it since it's stolen property. You only want to buy ones with a smooth collar. I'm trying to get my money back from that dude (he had it for 15 years) but I'm not holding my breath.
I then found another 125cf empty helium tank on OfferUp and snagged it for 30 bucks. So now I have a 60cf for when I need to take the mig somewhere, a 125cf for the mig cart, and a 280cf of pure argon for the tig cart.
Anyways, I got a Lincoln ProMIG 140 from Lowe's, seems to be a great little 110v machine, used it to do subframe reinforcements and now stitch welding the chassis on the racecar.
First welds, tried flux core then .025 solid with gas.
Subframe reinforcements. I went back and closed the corners later.
Then I picked up a tig machine. I had originally placed a pre order for an AHP AlphaTIG 201xd but saw in the FB group that the customer support isn't quite what it used to be and they seem to have a lot of problems with high frequency start boards. That's when I stumbled on the PrimeWeld TIG225x and I cancelled the AHP order. They're almost the same price too.
Things it has that the AHP doesnt:
25 more amps.
Comes with a genuine CK Worldwide 17 flex torch and CK superflex hose with dinse connector.
Up and Down slope control for 4t operation
Pre-flow control.
And their customer service is crazy good.
Here are some of my first tig welds ever on steel and then aluminum. I sucked horribly which was to be expected but I just need some time to sit down and practice.
we have recently acquired a primeweld 225x as well. i want to upgrade to a hand amptrol and a 25' torch lead. just waiting for the last few parts to roll in. it went from $775 to $800 right after i bought it.
I picked up a Primeweld 225x as well (thanks Arca_ex for the advice/info).
No experience whatsoever with TIG, very little with MIG. After a day or so of fooling around with scrap pieces, I was able to chop off/re-attach some square mild steel:
Not great, but I was mostly trying to get the settings/technique down for this thickness: 16GA, same as the exhaust portion I need to get welded up.
Small flex joint to a 3" v-band to 2.5" transition is the first half I needed to get done.
With fabulous back-purge setup:
The flex portion ends were around 16GA, but it was a double-layer that slipped over the exhaust. I wasn't real sure what settings to use since all my practice pieces were 16GA by itself, so I bumped the amperage by ~20% and went ahead.
I have a #8 gas lens, running about 17-18 cfh, 1/16 gray tungsten (15-degree freshly ground), 1/16 ER308L filler (pipe and flex are stainless).
All the parts were prepped inside/out by stainless wire brush, then cleaned with acetone.
For the machine I was running pulse at ~100hz, ~110-Amps, ~30% base current, ~35% pulse duty, plenty of pre/post flow.
Unfortunately this is where things went all to hell:
I wasn't sure exactly where I should be aiming the tungsten: I was worried about blowing holes in the pipe, so I'd aim about 2/3rds into the flex joint's double layer 1/3 onto the pipe itself. This sometimes gave an okay puddle between the two, but mostly seemed to either start blowing away the leading edge of the flex pipe or the puddle would form too far down onto only the flex pipe, and not really get any actual joint with the exhaust pipe.
After my first go-round it was a mix of giant boogers, or no real joint at all so I kept going around trying to smooth/fill things out as best I could re-working the existing welds. After about 3 passes smoothing things as best I could I wound up with this monstrosity:
I think it'll seal, but who knows how long it'll last before cracking (or maybe it'll go forever). The good news is my backpurge seemed to work (or maybe there wasn't enough penetration to matter anyways):
I still need to weld up the other half to the existing catback (or turboback I guess). Not feeling real optimistic about it coming out any better than this.
If anyone's got any suggestions on what to focus on for the next piece I'd really appreciate it. I think I'm going to turn up the argon flow to the low 20's based on what 'm reading for suggested, but I doubt that explains my difficulties (probably mostly lack of experience I'm guessing here).
How much did your back purge setup cost? Im debating if I want to fork out and set up a dual gas line, one for back purging and one for the tig torch or get a pound of solar flux for ~$65.
How much did your back purge setup cost? Im debating if I want to fork out and set up a dual gas line, one for back purging and one for the tig torch or get a pound of solar flux for ~$65.
I used the 2nd outlet with some vacuum tubing and aluminum foil. Just remember the argon is heavier than air, so it'll purge from the bottom first until it fills completely.
I got the 2nd half welded in tonight: I think it's a little better than the last one, I upped my duty cycle and amperage a slight bit. Now I just need 100x more practice to get better looking welds I think.
Here it is after my hacking adding on the v-band adapter and flex-pipe:
Test fitment so far looks solid, as long as the welds hold I think things are good.
Going from a couple test hits on mild steel straight to stainless tube was a setup for failure to begin with. I still suck and need more practice, I do a bit better than that but definitely would not jump to trying to weld expensive stuff like flex fittings and v band clamps yet.
Take my advice with a grain of salt because I'm pretty new but I've done a lot of research on the process and technique of it.
Looking at the weld it's got poor gas coverage for starters, that gray color is oxidation and poor shielding, it also looked like you may have cooked it a bit and if that's the case it can rust or crack etc because you basically cooked the stainless properties right out of it. BTW cheap regulators on Amazon sometimes aren't the most accurate. This could be part of your problem as well. For cup sizes, most of the guys doing automotive stainless are using like a #12 stubby gas lense or larger. If I was going to attempt it I'd probably go for a #14 or #16 Furick setup, and then a good rule of thumb would be to run 2 to 2.5 times the cup number for CFH of argon. So #8 would be 16-20CFH, #12 would be 24-30CFH, and if you went for a #16 probably 32-40CFH which lines up with recommended gas flow on the Furick instructions if you're using his cups.
As far as settings, you are WAY too hot and also started messing with pulse, which usually high freq pulse will get you more penetration with a little less heat, but with this thin stuff that's maybe something that can be done without. Stainless requires about 1/3 less amperage than carbon steel. The rule of thumb for carbon steel is about 1 amp per thousandth of material, and for stainless you would do about 0.7 amps per thousandth of material. And just because it's a lap joint doesn't mean you crank the power up. So for 16ga, that's 0.0625" thick. If we were doing a lap joint with carbon steel, you'd want to dial in about 63 amps, no pulse, and give that a go. For stainless, you're going to do 62.5*0.7. Which ends up being about 44 amps for that setting.
The other thing you mentioned about the top layer just blowing away, that's due to two things, one is that you've got the machine cranked up way too far, and second is that thin stainless needs good fit up. You need to get in there with a brass punch or some wood or whatever and hammer all those gaps shut.
If you are still hung up on using high frequency pulse I would just follow Jody's Rule of 33 from Welding Tips and Tricks youtube channel and see how that works. But you should probably just go without it. Anyways, 33 pulses per sec (hz), 33% duty, 33% background current.
One last thing, the one thing that is probably letting you get away with not absolutely blowing away that stainless with that high of amperage dialed in is that your filler rod is too big. It's probably able to chill the puddle enough for the base metal to survive it. Generally for carbon steel sheet metal you want a rod that is the same size or slightly less than the metal you're welding, and for stainless you go one more step down since it takes less amperage to do the same thickness. So you might want to try a 0.045" filler rod and see if that helps when practicing on scrap.
If any of this sounds like bullshit to more experienced guys, go ahead and correct me, just trying to help.
Going from a couple test hits on mild steel straight to stainless tube was a setup for failure to begin with. I still suck and need more practice, I do a bit better than that but definitely would not jump to trying to weld expensive stuff like flex fittings and v band clamps yet.
Take my advice with a grain of salt because I'm pretty new but I've done a lot of research on the process and technique of it.
Looking at the weld it's got poor gas coverage for starters, that gray color is oxidation and poor shielding, it also looked like you may have cooked it a bit and if that's the case it can rust or crack etc because you basically cooked the stainless properties right out of it. BTW cheap regulators on Amazon sometimes aren't the most accurate. This could be part of your problem as well. For cup sizes, most of the guys doing automotive stainless are using like a #12 stubby gas lense or larger. If I was going to attempt it I'd probably go for a #14 or #16 Furick setup, and then a good rule of thumb would be to run 2 to 2.5 times the cup number for CFH of argon. So #8 would be 16-20CFH, #12 would be 24-30CFH, and if you went for a #16 probably 32-40CFH which lines up with recommended gas flow on the Furick instructions if you're using his cups.
As far as settings, you are WAY too hot and also started messing with pulse, which usually high freq pulse will get you more penetration with a little less heat, but with this thin stuff that's maybe something that can be done without. Stainless requires about 1/3 less amperage than carbon steel. The rule of thumb for carbon steel is about 1 amp per thousandth of material, and for stainless you would do about 0.7 amps per thousandth of material. And just because it's a lap joint doesn't mean you crank the power up. So for 16ga, that's 0.0625" thick. If we were doing a lap joint with carbon steel, you'd want to dial in about 63 amps, no pulse, and give that a go. For stainless, you're going to do 62.5*0.7. Which ends up being about 44 amps for that setting.
The other thing you mentioned about the top layer just blowing away, that's due to two things, one is that you've got the machine cranked up way too far, and second is that thin stainless needs good fit up. You need to get in there with a brass punch or some wood or whatever and hammer all those gaps shut.
If you are still hung up on using high frequency pulse I would just follow Jody's Rule of 33 from Welding Tips and Tricks youtube channel and see how that works. But you should probably just go without it. Anyways, 33 pulses per sec (hz), 33% duty, 33% background current.
One last thing, the one thing that is probably letting you get away with not absolutely blowing away that stainless with that high of amperage dialed in is that your filler rod is too big. It's probably able to chill the puddle enough for the base metal to survive it. Generally for carbon steel sheet metal you want a rod that is the same size or slightly less than the metal you're welding, and for stainless you go one more step down since it takes less amperage to do the same thickness. So you might want to try a 0.045" filler rod and see if that helps when practicing on scrap.
If any of this sounds like bullshit to more experienced guys, go ahead and correct me, just trying to help.
Thanks Arca! Yeah you've got some really good points:
I tried out the pulse based on a couple vids/posts from Jody's 33 rule, I think my biggest worry/problem was whether I should be turning the amperage down so I don't immediately blow through, or if I should turn it up so I don't just cook everything.
At first I tried around 90 amps @ 33% duty, but it would take at least 4-5 seconds for the puddle to start forming which seemed like forever.
In hindsight I should've turned the gas up way more (or just kept incrementing it up) to see how it affected the outcome.
I figure worst case this'll start to leak in a few weeks/months, which means I get another chance to try again. I'll just have to keep practicing in the meantime so I"m ready for it!
Thanks Arca! Yeah you've got some really good points:
I tried out the pulse based on a couple vids/posts from Jody's 33 rule, I think my biggest worry/problem was whether I should be turning the amperage down so I don't immediately blow through, or if I should turn it up so I don't just cook everything.
At first I tried around 90 amps @ 33% duty, but it would take at least 4-5 seconds for the puddle to start forming which seemed like forever.
In hindsight I should've turned the gas up way more (or just kept incrementing it up) to see how it affected the outcome.
I figure worst case this'll start to leak in a few weeks/months, which means I get another chance to try again. I'll just have to keep practicing in the meantime so I"m ready for it!
Hmm. Well maybe just turning pulse off for now would be the best route for getting better. Check this out.
Back when I was welding regularly I worked at shops that had good tig equipment from someone like Hobart or Miller. I use my mig all the time at home because it's fast and easy, but I've been wanting to get back into TIG welding. I have an old Miller Econo Tig that I got when a shop went out of business, but I rarely use it. It's a pretty basic machine with a **** to adjust amperage and not much else. I've considered buying one of these more affordable Primeweld or Alphatig systems. Do you think one of these new budget welders will be significantly better then my old Miller? What specifically can it do better?
Location: Detroit (the part with no rules or laws)
Posts: 5,677
Total Cats: 800
Old tig welders that have GIANT transformers in them can tig steel like you wouldn't believe. But they're heavy as heck and take up so much space for not a lot of power. New TIG machines have IGBT transformers, they can do AC, they have all sorts of settings that the old miller doesn't have to make your life better. Smaller. More power efficient. There are quite a few pros. But without knowing exactly what machine you're comparing to it's impossible to say.
The Econotig has AC and DC. It's 150 amp, up to 3/16" steel and aluminum, which is fine for my purposes. Can convert it to stick weld if I want to go thicker, or more likely I would just use the Mig. The only complaints about it I see are hitting the duty cycle quickly when welding a lot of aluminum. I've never used a welder with pulse and the other functionality the newer welders have. So many ***** to turn...
Comparing it to the primeweld 225 and the alphatig. Not too worried about size it's on a cart already.
I picked up a Hobart Handler 140 MIG to learn with and to do some small projects around the shop. I definitely plan to learn to TIG at some point, but I want to get good at MIG first. I still need more practice!
I've only really done two car related projects so far: front subframe reinforcements first and then I welded some reinforcements to my trailer frame for a winch to mount to through the floor (not pictured). This also involved building a spacer block to get the winch off the floor a bit that I did out of some leftover 1/8" plate. I'm glad I did that project as it was great practice while still building something functional. I've been thinking about building a steel fabrication table for the same reason - good practice while having something usable when I'm done.
Back when I was welding regularly I worked at shops that had good tig equipment from someone like Hobart or Miller. I use my mig all the time at home because it's fast and easy, but I've been wanting to get back into TIG welding. I have an old Miller Econo Tig that I got when a shop went out of business, but I rarely use it. It's a pretty basic machine with a **** to adjust amperage and not much else. I've considered buying one of these more affordable Primeweld or Alphatig systems. Do you think one of these new budget welders will be significantly better then my old Miller? What specifically can it do better?
Well it depends on how much you use it and if it's worth it to you. If you want to weld a lot of aluminum, hell yeah money well spent. Just having balance and frequency control would probably be worth the price of entry alone in that situation. If you don't really use it all that often and can't see yourself taking advantage of things like 4t control, pulse, AC balance/freq adjustments etc etc then maybe just throw that money towards something else. At the end of the day though if you weld enough I don't think you'd feel like you wasted your money if you picked up a modern inverter machine.
Thanks for the video. Ironically I have the same Miller 250 MIG welder. Just had it refurbished and it runs like a champ so not going to be replacing that anytime soon. With tools I try to buy the best I can afford and maintain it well so it lasts for a long time. With welders and other electronic tools technology advancement means this mindset probably needs rethinking. I guess it's not that different then something like a cordless drill. Obviously I'm not using my old heavy drill from 20 years ago anymore, even though it still works.
I'll spend some more time with my existing TIG welder to better understand its capabilities and limitations. If I find a lot of shortcomings I'll probably take the plunge on a new welder. I don't need a new welder, they've just gotten a lot more affordable so has me wondering what I'm missing out on. Thanks for the responses.
06-04-2020, 05:47 PM
The Comprehensive Welding Thread
1
