FM Exhaust Brace - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Flyin Miata - Miata Accessories 1-800-FLY-MX5s (orders) 1-970-242-3800 (tech)

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-03-2010, 09:10 AM   #1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 576
Total Cats: 0
Default FM Exhaust Brace

What do you guys think of Flyinmiata new exhaust brace. I was hoping a problem for broken studs would come soon as I really want a FM2 hydra and did not want to spend all the money for V-bands. Here is a link for the brace.

Flyin' Miata : Turbochargers : Parts and upgrades : 1999-05 3" FM exhaust brace
02semiata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 09:26 AM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (24)
 
kotomile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 7,578
Total Cats: 40
Default

Hmm, only for NBs running an FM 3" exhaust. Kind of a narrow market so far. They likely have other applications coming, I'd imagine.
kotomile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 09:49 AM   #3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 576
Total Cats: 0
Default

I posted the 3in there is a 2.5 and a NA version as well.
02semiata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 01:11 PM   #4
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 738
Total Cats: 86
Default

Yes, they're available for our 2.5" and 3" systems on both NA and NB models.
Keith@FM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 01:14 PM   #5
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,682
Total Cats: 216
Default

Any possibility of this working on a BEGi DP?

If not its just another reason for me to switch to a FM DP, Im sick of all these spiking and creep issues...
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 01:16 PM   #6
Elite Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 1,990
Total Cats: 9
Default

So is the solution to the nuts loosening?
kenzo42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 01:21 PM   #7
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,847
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenzo42 View Post
So is the solution to the nuts loosening?

It's a form of something I've suggest long ago for those running a vertical flanged turbo manifold; two very common miata manifolds come to mind.

I had suggested that adding a small lip on the lower edge of the flange, so the turbo's weight rests on the manifold not the studs, might help the issue.

This brace should help eliminate some pulling forces from below. Just make sure it's after your flex pipe or something like this will happen:



this hole was ripped out of my DP because I tracked it with a brace hold it to the tranny before my flex pipe.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 02:08 PM   #8
Elite Member
iTrader: (24)
 
kotomile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 7,578
Total Cats: 40
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kotomile View Post
They likely have other applications coming, I'd imagine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Yes, they're available for our 2.5" and 3" systems on both NA and NB models.
Wow, that was fast.
kotomile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 02:27 PM   #9
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 738
Total Cats: 86
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
Any possibility of this working on a BEGi DP?
On the 2.5" NA ones, I would not expect it to fit. On the others, it might work. Maybe.

The intent is to support the turbo from below - or more accurately, take the leverage of the big, long, heavy exhaust system off the turbo. The end result is a happier set of studs. It's been tested on track with excellent success, and it actually seems to cut down on some NVH in the car as well.

We've experimented with having braces welded directly to the downpipe, but they tend to end up like Braineack's picture. You'll notice the factory downpipe brace isn't welded to the pipe, but is clamped around it. The support tears out of the pipe because of the point load on a fairly small area.

Flex joints aren't really a factor, we don't use them in our systems. In fact, putting one of these braces after a flex joint would probably decrease its effectiveness at supporting the turbo.
Keith@FM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 02:44 PM   #10
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,847
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
We've experimented with having braces welded directly to the downpipe, but they tend to end up like Braineack's picture. You'll notice the factory downpipe brace isn't welded to the pipe, but is clamped around it. The support tears out of the pipe because of the point load on a fairly small area.

Flex joints aren't really a factor, we don't use them in our systems. In fact, putting one of these braces after a flex joint would probably decrease its effectiveness at supporting the turbo.
good points.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 03:55 PM   #11
Elite Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 4,921
Total Cats: 0
Default

Pictures of it installed?
jayc72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 06:46 PM   #12
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: VA
Posts: 828
Total Cats: -2
Default

+1, let's see some installed pics
thymer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 06:47 PM   #13
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 738
Total Cats: 86
Default

I'd like to point out you didn't ask for good pictures.

NA 2.5 installed. This one bolts to the bellhousing and clamps to the downpipe.


NB 2.5 bracket installed, no exhaust clamp (or exhaust) in place. You're looking back from under the engine, the red thing is the PPF. This design clamps on the midpipe just in front of the cat. As long as your downpipe puts the exhaust in the normal location and your exhaust is one of ours it'll fit. This was actually taken on a naturally aspirated car.
Keith@FM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 06:52 PM   #14
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

I was going to try this exact thing in the summer of 2009, but I decided to give money to Turbo Tim. I hope it works for you gays.


Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I'd like to point out you didn't ask for good pictures.

NA 2.5 installed. This one bolts to the bellhousing and clamps to the downpipe.


NB 2.5 bracket installed, no exhaust clamp (or exhaust) in place. You're looking back from under the engine, the red thing is the PPF. This design clamps on the midpipe just in front of the cat. As long as your downpipe puts the exhaust in the normal location and your exhaust is one of ours it'll fit. This was actually taken on a naturally aspirated car.
Awwwe, that's a cute little exhaust pipe.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 06:54 PM   #15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 576
Total Cats: 0
Default

All the broken stud talk had me thinking of a FM2 with a turbotim manifold and downpipe but this will be a lot cheaper and easier to setup so I really hope to hear good feedback
02semiata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 07:09 PM   #16
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 2,476
Total Cats: 114
Default

I will give my own critique.

I think without a flex joint after the clamp constraint at the bell housing will dramatically increase the stress level at the turbo Joint. I just recently did an FEA analysis of a similar setup on an exhaust for my work I get paid to do. The constraint at the bell housing will serve as a fulcrum for the cantelevered mass of the rest of the exhaust system and it will multiply the bending stress at the turbo joint rather than isolate it from bending stress. Think of it like trying to lever something with a crow bar. The turbo joint is like the tip of the crowbar you can jam the tip of a crowbar in something and try to move it and it wont do much of anything until you give it something to pry against (fulcrum point) so you grab a stick or something and place it back from the tip to lever against and pry away. The constraint at the bell housing becomes the fulcrum in this case. You get bending stress as you go around a corner and the exhaust pipe wants to swing to the side or bounce up and down over bumps or the engine rocks over from torque and the aft part of the exhaust system tries to stay put relative to the engine. It needs a flex section in the system to remove the bending stress you get from the cantilevered mass of the rest of the exhaust system after the turbo. Without a flex coupling your better off not adding a fulcrum.

Also from my personal turbo Miata experience the U-bolt clamp is horrible it never would stay tight. The U-bolt will create too much contact stress and will yield the pipe underneath it and it will constantly need to be retightened as it slowly crushes the pipe creating a ring indention in it, been there done that. The clamp needs to be about a 1” wide strap to avoid crushing the pipe and to keep it tight.

My own personal setup that has worked well after trying several, I still prefer holding it at the bell housing but I have a custom clamp at blousing that has about a 1” wide fabricated clamshell clamp arrangement and a flex joint before the cat. The factory clamp is also creats a wide clamp serfice on the pipe and it works good.

Bob

Last edited by bbundy; 02-03-2010 at 07:25 PM.
bbundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 07:25 PM   #17
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,484
Total Cats: 248
Default

Keith,
Any way you can post CAD files of those so we can make our own?

hehe.
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 07:52 PM   #18
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 738
Total Cats: 86
Default

Sorry, we lost the files

Bob, we haven't had any trouble with the clamps loosening. They're not your typical cheap NAPA ones, it could be a matter of fastener quality. I'm not sure this clamp will provide a fulcrum, as it does hold the exhaust into place pretty well without allowing it to rotate. Also, even if it does act like a fulcrum I can't see how that is worse than having the entire exhaust system try to pivot around the turbo.

The factory MSM setup is basically the same as our 2.5 NA design. No flex joints and a solid mount at the bellhousing. Actually, all Miatas come with a similar mount at the bellhousing. We simply weren't able to package it with the other downpipes other than the 2.5 NA.

So far, testing has yielded good results. There are a few more of these on the way to some pretty aggressive Miata drivers who have had stud problems in the past for more data points.
Keith@FM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 08:37 PM   #19
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,105
Total Cats: 518
Default

Wait a tic, does that 2nd pic mean the Targa is getting a turbo!? Or are you working at home.
curly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 08:50 PM   #20
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default


or

or
AIDS!!!
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 57 07-19-2017 05:11 PM
Another Cast Manifold Corky Bell Prefabbed Turbo Kits 18 11-22-2016 10:01 PM
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM
1996 Turbo Build Goldwar DIY Turbo Discussion 2 09-29-2015 10:20 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:33 AM.