Are we allowed to bash noobs?
 

Because I just got warned for doing it. Has the policy changed recently?

we should be allowed to bash idiots.

I was pretty stupid the first day I went to school. But I learned.

Try to be at least a little tolerant of the first post or two and if the noobs dont get a clue or start sassing you back while the helpful few are still being helpful, then go right ahead and kick em in the nuts.

It's hard for me to come up with a good reason to ban someone for their first post being ignorant. Kids get excited and want to put a turbo on their shit. Once the boner goes down, they usually calm down a little. Plus I'm not powerful enough to ban, so...

Otherwise, see Joe Perez's post here:

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t29866-3/#post348384

I just read Joe's post in the thread I got warned for. I need to write a response to it, because it's very clear that there is a serious misunderstanding as to what this forum was, is, and is becoming. I will do that, right after I get back from tuning a car.

link it up dawg

And you could have just ignored the thread completely and not made a mountain out of a molehill, Joe. That thread was DONE. The noob was noobish, we flamed him as we always do, he apologized, said he had done some reading and learned a lot, and we all commended him. At least two of us used the phrase "read and you'll do fine", and someone even gave intercooler pricing suggest. Y8s topped it off with a nice feel-good message about how all newb threads should go as well, and then FIVE HOURS later, you decided to pipe up.

And for what reason? That thread was a model of why hazing works. I couldn't write a better "great first n00b thread" thread if I tried.

This forum has had an influx of new members in the last few months, and that's great, but it's diluted the atmosphere here. This forum used to be full of build threads and awesome discussion and there were no noobs to haze. Suddenly there are noobs to haze, and suddenly the hazing is the problem?

No. That's bullshit, and there are a lot of people here who know it.

The problem is the noobs. We need to find a way to invite them to the forum, and the First Post section is an awesome way to do that. Get acclimated, have Sam give his lecture on location and signature, and have someone help them find the Useful Posts section and get them some reading material. The VAST majority of noobs seem to use that section, and that's great.

But there are a few idiots who refuse to look, and therein lies the problem. They post up with stupid questions in sections, and the noise to signal ratio goes to total shit.

The mods here seem to be supporting this, to be quite honest. I'll blow the elephant up, too: I can't see the mod forum here, but I'd guess Rick has been pressuring the mods to clean it up, grow the forum, and generate ad revenue. It was my worry when Rick bought this place, and it appears that it was a valid one.

So what do we do about this? And by We I mean the members who spend hours here every day (the mods and a bunch of the subscribers who have turbo cars, or are working on turbo cars, and one stupid prick who none of us thought would ever get a turbo car). We need some way to bring new members in, acclimate them, but maintain the level of technical discussion that this forum is known for.

The mods think that nixing the hazing is the way to go, and I could not disagree more. The hazing goes away, the noobs flood the forum, and the subscribers leave. I guarantee that's what will happen.

There is a simple fix for this: Don't let new members post threads. It's ALWAYS bad. Let them post their intro thread, get a few posts under their belt, and then mabye a month after they sign up, give them the ability to post a build thread or ask questions. A month or two is enough time for them to find the FAQs and stickys, read them all, and educate themselves. It produces good, educated members, the kind of people who will stick around and make this place bigger and better. It will also TOTALLY eliminate all but the most deserved hazing: No more noobs posting dumb threads, no more hazing. Simple as that. If a noob decides to hijack someone else's thread, without posting in the Useful Posts section, don't let the hazing happen: DELETE THE DAMN POST. PM them, tell them that their question is answered in the stickies and they need to read them before posting in the main forums.

I want to see this place grow and prosper, but if it comes at the cost of what attracted me to this forum in the first place, then fuck it. You guys have the ball, and if you want to throw it towards growth at all costs, then go for it. It's your bed you are shitting in.

Cliffsnotes: This place is getting shitty, and requiring new members to wait 30-60 days before making new threads would help a lot.

i agree with Sav 100% this place has changed a ton from when i first joined. when i first joined, i talked smack to a mod i think, and got hazed greatly for it. if you can take it, stay. if not, we wont miss you.

+1 to most of what sav said. I don't completely agree with his solution. However, I have no other ideas. And I do believe his approach, for the most part, would help. So would the mods getting a little stricter. This forum has more BS and less tech every day. FACT. I hate it.

In my eyes, there are two solutions. Maybe three.

1) Get all the forum members up to speed/mature enough to guide the newbs (ie-not haze them at first and give them a chance no matter what they post at first)

2) Not let newbs post for a while after signing up. I'm not sure that's the best approach either.

Choice one is the best approach IMO. We don't need 20 people making fun of the newb right off the bat. As Joe said, give them a chance, and if they get an attitude still and just refuse to listen, then let the bashing begin. But not before.

we have a BS section. if a tech thread gets BS, a mod should move it. but we still have members that have been on here for a long time and STILL can't post in the right damn section.

ok so I agree that noobs who are out of line (willingly post stupid questions in stupid places, etc) should be schooled one way or another.

the biggest issue I had with that miata_dr1ft guy's thread was that there were cries for banning before he even had a third post.

next time, I will try to keep a closer eye on the situation and try to maintain some decorum and noob behavior.

part of this issue this time I think is that a lot of us were just plain not around.

which is why I think the warning system is a decent idea. use it. warn the shit out of the stupid noobs! maybe one of the supers/admins can correct me, but I think a sufficient number of warnings results in a temp ban, no?

I'm kinda curious about why certain threads are left standing. Often, either VIA PM or VIA A POST IN THE THREAD recommend to NOOBs who've dug a big hole to PM a moderator and ask them to delete a thread so they can start over. I know a few have done just that, and come back a week later with an appropriate first thread... it really works out. The thread is gone before the bashing can take place, the NOOB is on board with the program, the forum is cleaned up... everybody wins.

If the moderators see a thread like this generating, JUST DELETE IT, and send a nice warm&fuzzy PM to the guy explaining the philosophy of this forum in a politically correct moderator fashion so the guy feels welcome and knows we're here to help if he'll meet us halfway.

I'd be more than happy to write up something appropriate... it'd start like this:

"Hey, welcome to the forum, I'm your friendly moderator. You're probably wondering why your thread got deleted..."

And it ends with:
"... so that's the kind of ship we run around here. You won't find a more comprehensive and factual collection of Miata turbo stuff anywhere, so look around, read a lot, don't forget the search function, fill in your signature and the basics of your profile information. Take your time with creating your first post in the Meet&Greet section... it's how everybody will know you, and first impressions are important, even online. WELCOME!"

The noob did seem blind-sided. He really had no idea what he did wrong.
I believe it's ok to be harsh if some direction is given as well.

That could have gone much worse if the noob had taken more offense. He wouldn't have known why everybody was mad at him and would have left or gotten banned.

But he seems to be a good kid, and seems to be learning.

Idea:
This site uses cookies. Newbs should have a certain few special pages they have to at least visit before being able to post or start a thread. A curriculum. If they don't have the cookies, they don't get to post. And they don't get to start a thread until so many cookies and posts are completed. Aftet 15 or so posts the cookies thing goes inactive.

Ideas?

Edit: And Samnavy's idea on cleaning up the threads and a warning letter is great, too.

This placed has changed a shitload over the years. I remember back in Philip's days, members had a hard time not getting banned, let alone the noobs. :bowrofl:

I think its great this place has grown so much, lots of new ideas, lots of new rides, lots more potential.

I can only speak for myself when I say this;

If I end up in a bullshit, makes no sense type thread....I click back. I don't offer up any more time on reading shit posts, let alone replying to them. I would say I only post to about half of what I read. Lots and lots of junk if you look around or pull up common searches.

However, if you've been here long enough then you know how to stay out of the bullshit if you want. I think some people definitely feel the need to rise up and stand tall via the internet and speak their point. Even if the kid is a shitbag, why even dignify a response?

If everyone here with a brain sat back and let noobish threads have a week or so without jumping in with your chests sticking out, you'd probably be surprised. Say a new guy makes a thread about something, nobody responds for x amount of time (with exception to noobs), thus giving the OP some time to maybe search, or at least sift through the forums and possibly find his own answer. Maybe he will go off and start another 10 threads, who knows. In that case, a simple "click be gone" and move on with your day.

I don't know. I usually laugh at some of the older members on here when I see them go sooo far out of their way to talk shit. :bowrofl: Its all good, not my problem, I usually don't make it too far into the post anyhow. Hopefully all this works out, cause there definitely are some older guys around that haven't posted in awhile. Newb takeover 09' eat your ass out.

Vash-

A lot of the suggestions that have been offered in the past all require the mods or Rick to do something about the noobs. While it may seem easy enough to change the vB code to do this and do that or have the mods edit posts/warn people, I don't see it happening. Not that the Mods or Rick can't handle it, but they all have a lot to do already. They also don't contribute to the great content as much when they are babysitting.

Why not just ignore stupid posts. If a noob ask something that they should of searched for ignore them. When their thread gets a bunch or views but no posts I'm sure they will either figure it out or leave. The noise to signal ratio increases when everyone and their dog tells some noob something irrelevant. Everytime I click "New Posts" and some noob thread has 20 posts in it I have to read to see if something good came out of it. If I see a noob post and read it once then it never comes up again I don't read as much crap.

The great part of this idea is that it can start right now. Takes no effort on Rick's parts. Takes no effort on any of the Mods' part.

cliff notes: ignore stupid posts

There's a welcome email that goes to every new members. Highlight the threads they should read, in particular how this forum operates w/r/t noobs. If they don't bother to read up before posting their threads, BAN. Let them try again...

There is an plugin that will force people to read a certain post/thread upon their arrival to the forum. Put it in place, they have to click 'I agree' before continuing. Then one of the following...

A) Allow noobs to only post in Welcome Forum until they have 10-15 posts, or a 5 day limit before posting anywhere else. This will force them to absorb some of the information here and refrain from making dumbass posts. After that, they can do whatever. If they start stupid threads, temp BAN and a reminder of the forum rules.

B) Allow noobs unrestricted posting, as it happens now. If they start stupid threads, permanent BAN.

People who lack reading comprehension skills shouldn't be putting a turbo on their car anyway, and the community doesn't need to hold their hand for basic Q&A.

Nothing wrong with a site that has rules, and following them shouldn't really be an issue.

:werd: because the hazing also increases the signal:noise ratio. Seems to me a mod is usually in with an instructional post soon enough.

I feel your pain Sav. I have even told this to Scott and Tom when chatting with them over GTalk. I find myself visiting this site less and less. I can't formulate a reason as well as you did, but I know I can tell the change and I personally don't like it. Luckily, I have been here long enough and have met/talked with many of the members here that are knowledgable that I can just shoot them an IM or call them when I want to bounce some idieas around about my latest project.

This forum is becoming like every other forum on the net. Starting to get touchy feely like M.net. I predict that there will be a wine and cheese section with in the next year.

No, it's a shitty idea and it caters to the stupidest members of this site, not the people who contribute time, experience, intelligence, and MONEY.

Again, it's like letting your dog shit on your couch. It's not acceptable. Your idea is just to ignore it and hope he stops doing it; my idea is to not let the dog on the couch in the first place. Obviously scolding the dog isn't working, but I think ignoring it is a great way to dilute the forum so badly that it starts to drive experienced members away.

+1 to all of this. Again, if the threads are never seen, nobody gets bashed and everyone is happy.

In hindsight I do think he got overly hazed. I think it has become stylish on this site to call for someone's ban humorously ( I include myself in this crowd). A lot of those cries for banning are probably not all that serious. It probably comes down to the anonymity of the internet. I'm sure even the harshest noob critics would be more tolerant and helpful in person.

Using the warning function is definitely the better option. To be honest I never even notice the button there on the bottom left of a post. Maybe if members had some threat of reprimand for excessive and unnecessary calls for banning instead of legitimately using the warning function their would be less hazing and more weeding of truly unproductive members and posts. It's easy to say, "ban this retard" but I'd give a second thought as to whether I actually wanted to report someone's post. I and probably everyone would do it less often.

Maybe we need a written code of rules of posting and behavior that can be referred to to determine whether a noob (or anyone for that matter) deserves to have their post reported.

Or everyone would report all the time and mods would sift through hundreds of messages. Posting "BAN THE NOOB" in a thread is not a big deal in my book. You obviously don't have the ability to do it so who cares. I like how the forum used to be. Sure it was harsh, but it allowed us to prety much hand pick our membership and for the longest time resulted in a member base that was highly intelligent and creative.

Savington, let me tell you something no member has told you yet: you can bash a noob without cussing him.

Dial down the insults so everyone can hear your arguments.

Plus, you sound like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hide. You act appropriately as a mod on m.net and then come over here and insult someone who's trying to learn.

*sighs*

1st off, money talks bs walks. You are a subscriber; speak loud by canceling today if you condemn the way things work here. While I appreciate every cent everyone donates, and every dollar that a vendor pays, I certainly won't let people start brewing up the hate for me, the site or the people here.

With regards to cleaning up the noob hate. Posts that are not thought-out by new members should be addressed. "Use search" as a response is cheese, but at times it may be called for. Belittling people because they are new doesn't fly with me. Expecting me to force new members to wait for 60 days before they post will never ever happen. If you cannot conduct yourself in a manner that is acceptable by your peers or the staff here, then we must find resolution or part ways.

2nd, you are guessing wrong with regards to what takes place in the mod section. Being a moderator or administrator has its privileges; one is knowing what is said. I assure you, I do not pressure anyone to generate ad revenue and I never will pressure anyone. If ad revenue was needed to ensure the stability of this forum, I will personally hunt it down.

So that you understand and do not make the same mistake twice, I don't solicit vendors. I sell advertising to people who contact me. Ad revenue keeps this place going with donations from members.

So with regards to this worry you initially had. I suppose the fact that Philip deleted complete sections didn’t unsettle you, but someone who has done nothing to put down this forum cast such a shadow that you need worry…..some people and their thought process baffle me.

Please don't assume anything. You can ask, but don't put garbage out there to rally the troops. It irritates me and I really have no patience to deal with it, being a subscriber does not shield you from my serious lack of patience when it comes to this stuff.

**Coles notes: have an issue, you will get a refund and you will no longer need to worry **

To Scott, the mods or anyone else. I can easily include a link in the welcome pms to a thread new users should read with regards to posting procedures. You cannot punish someone if they do not know the rules and I am more than happy to assist in getting something pro-active setup so that new members have a clear understanding of what is required.

Savington, you are welcome to ask or suggest how you believe MT should be ran, my pm box is open. Telling me and others how you believe I do things can end now. If you feel the need to ‘cuss’ at new members, then maybe your membership has ran its course.

I hope that isn’t too soft for everyone.

Edit: Rick said it.

No- my idea is to let the mods handle it. That's why they're here. If you don't like what's on TV change the channel. It's the hazing that keeps bringing the thread to the top. Let the mods point the noob in the right direction and lock the thread. Done. That way you don't go chasing off somebody who just might have something offer, yet they've been booted for a single mistake.

.

Ok, I will admit: the way we jumped on said noob was quite a bit harsh. It is true that many (including yours truly:)) use way too much curse words when expressing ourselves. I apologize for this. I have no excuse other than "I am way too bored at work and an angry person, and having to put up with people's bs for a living, like being an asshole online".....as well as "I came in here and saw hustler saying some sick stuff/curse words and thought it was ok"......again sorry....

There is some good in the hazing that's going on. that rotary reborn clown was a complete basket case, he jumped in guns blazing, we all hazed him and quickly found out he is not going to cooperate or play by the rules, and he was banned. Later he came back with threats, proving us right.

This latest guy though, came in clueless and lippy, got hazed, started playing by the rules and toned it down. I immediately commended him for it as well as others. Like sav said: the thread was DONE!!!!

Joe you are my hero and I have nothing but the outermost respect for you and always will, but that post was unnecessary.....That is all.

Why? I'm honestly curious. I think a grace period where members were restricted to the New Members section would have a huge impact on the hazing and BS that goes on in the main forums.

Give them a list of links or something. If I could just say "Read your welcome PM" I would.

Nah dude, you cant do that.

As good of an idea as that sounds, people wont stand for it. If I joined a forum where I have to sit in a staging area before I can ask questions in other parts of the site id say "this is a waste of my time and I need questions answered now, im bouncing".

I think 60 days is way too long, but what about something like this:

They can't make a new thread anywhere until they make an introduction thread. In that introduction thread we will greet them, and get them started.

Its just an idea.

Chatting with Sam online about all this, and he explained why a 30 day ban isn't a good idea.

Rick, what about this: Instead of hazing, ask us to report the post. Mods get the report, review the thread, and decide that the questions the new member is asking are too general or answered easily by a bit of reading. Give them a list of links to read and review, and then lock the thread. We learn to not read locked threads, and that way the new members who do their research get rewarded with more attention and better answers. Either they expect their hands to get held, which they aren't going to get, or they do the reading and bring back a better thread in a week, and the newbs that deserve attention with good questions get better answers. It's not as if I bash every single new member that I see.

I guess I'm gonna say the same thing I said above, but in a slightly different way.

I think the forum as a whole needs to take a few steps to making this place better. You guys say the newbs are doing things that they shouldn't, yet you aren't setting an example either.

I still don't think limiting a newbs power is gonna make anything better. Some are shy and read enough to figure out what to do/ not do before ever posting. And there are others. And then there are the few people that make a borderline poor/weak/stupid/stupid-newb post. I think if the forum as a whole would set an example and encourage them to search, read the faqs, post some links, etc, that would work a lot better at getting their attention than banning/ridicule/etc.

Ok, first off, let me apologize for being a bit brash. I was pretty righteously pissed when I saw what was going on in there, particularly in light of the fact that I thought we'd all reached a consensus recently in the MiataTurbo.net VIP (very intelligent person) lounge thread.


Rick hasn't said a single word to myself, or to any Mod so far as I'm aware, concerning revenue or conduct, even so far as the treatment of subscribers is concerned. Philip was a much more brazen, in-your-face administrator, whereas Rick is generally very hands-off so I can fully understand how the perception has arisen. It's my impression (not that we've specifically discussed it) that he prefers to let the inmates run the asylum, which is why Braineack was made an Administrator just before the handoff from Philip to Rick, and a couple more of us were brought on as mods. As far as Rick's influence upon me, the sole benefit that we derive from being moderators is that we don't have to pay the subscription fee to get ad-free service. That's it. The sum total of the value I derive from dealing with endless BS is the equivalent of forty dollars a year.



Now, please allow me to explain some of the thoughts rolling around in my head. To me, there is a fairly significant difference between a person who comes on here and posts a stupid or uninformed question, and one who posts a stupid or uninformed question and then acts like a complete douchebag about it.

miata_drift came in here and asked a couple of questions that fell into the stupid category. He had clearly done some research, as he made reference to the Bell fuel system, had already been in contact with FM, and noted that a portion of his budget was set aside for a clutch and radiator. His only mistakes, really, were not realizing that eBay turbo kits are generally crap, and having a slightly distorted comprehension of boost vs. HP.

A couple of people then jumped on him with some unhelpful, wise-ass replies. If miata_drift had copped an attitude and told everyone to fuck off, then he'd have been a douchebag and would have deserved further abuse. But he didn't. In fact, his next message was pretty reasonable, albeit somewhat lacking in practical experience. After that, more folks jumped on him with even harsher responses, rather than saying "Look, here's the problem in your logic..." and helping the dude out. That's about the time when I lost it.


Can you at least sorta understand my reasoning here? We can't just jump on every person who comes in here asking stupid questions. If we do that, they'll just leave and tell everybody else what assholes we are. We'll never get any new members, and that's a great way to kill a forum.

I also don't see that imposing limits like 50 posts to create a thread, or 30 days to post, or the like will help. Same deal- new people will show up, get frustrated, and leave. Either that, or they'll create 50 bullshit posts in existing threads, just like some do now creating 10 crap posts so they can use the classifieds.


I get a little frustrated too when I see new folks post the same stupid questions that we've all seen a thousand times. But I really don't see what's so wrong with giving them a little shove in the right direction, so long as they show some inkling of intelligence and willingness to learn. (Good grammar helps too.) We can't just ban every person who strolls in here and asks a question that might have already been answered in page 3 of some thread that's two and a half years old.

I don't know about you guys, but I view this forum as a means for educating the great unwashed and spreading the gospel, so to speak. If I wanted to hang out in a forum where nobody new ever joins and the same old crowd talk about the same old shit every day, I'd join MorrisMarinaTurbo.net. :D

Oh, and Sav, I already suggested that people use the Report feature to alert us of idiocy in progress so that we can step in and help out before things get out of control. It was right here in the recent "VIP" thread. You even replied to my post. ;)

Didn't I report that guy's post?

I have a question.


Say a person makes a thread that asks a question that was already answered. Why cant a mod just post a link to the thread where the question was answered and lock the thread. Delete any other posts that are irrelevant to the original post?

Its not as messed up as deleting a persons threads, equivalent to Stalinist era rule.

We also cant corral newbs into a staging area, where they need to sit before they can post, thats retarded. People who know their shit, will be pissed and just leave.

We also have to remember, not everyone has extensive forum experience. Before I came to MT.net, I was on 4 other forums. I know what the norm is, and what it takes. I know the classes of users on the forums, I know how to approach them and I know how to "live" amongst them. Some people dont, and never experienced it. So when a first time makes a thread and is told to fuck off, what do you think goes through their mind.

leads me to my next point.

Basically, basically.. What I told savington, we need to remember that there is a live person on the other end, reading the posts we write. If you aren't prepared to say what you post to the persons face if you were standing in front of them, you shouldnt post.

Rick..

Correct me if I am wrong. What you basically want is for people to stop scaring away the customers. Yes?

From what I see.

We need two things to happen.

Senior members to stop scaring away new members with nasty hateful posts ,that just piss off noobs and cause basing amongst senior members like this thread.

and

Noob threads with stupid topics need to have questions answered short and sweet by a MOD, and locked. Courtesy PM sent, explaining how things are done on the forum and an apology why the thread was locked.

Always keeping in mind theres a human on the other end.

BUT........

The forum rules should still allow me to tell someone his rims look like shit, or he is a retard for doing someone because thats my honest opinion. Especially when a poster asks for an opinion.

DONE.

Honestly, I don't know. I never got a notification, and I guess I'll have to figure out why that is.

Maybe I reported another post. I know I've done at least two in the last month. Did you get either one?

Sav, I apologize. When I moved from CA to FL, my email changed, and while I thought I'd updated everything properly, reports were still going to my old address.

I've corrected this problem and tested the system by reporting a couple of my own posts, and it is now working properly. Again, sorry for jumping the gun on you.

Rick, I read what you wrote very carefully. I've been around for almost 3 years and am one of the very few non-moderators with over 3000 posts. I've been to the dyno-days, met the boys on both coasts, am a member of 3 Miata clubs, buy parts almost exclusively from the vendors and out of the classifieds, and am really trying my best to help the NOOBs without crushing their hopes and dreams too bad. I've contributed a countless number of sticky's and writeups, so I hope that my vote counts for something.

The thing that has separated this forum from the other Miata forums on the net is it's unwavering intolerance of mediocrity. The quality of the content on this forum is paramount. If the type of NOOB posting that is tolerated at m.net, malibu.com, driftworld, etc... is allowed here, then soon this place will be nothing more than a collection of unintelligible text-typing 17yr olds with huge important opinions that must be shared with everybody but no money to spend on their car because Mom won't raise their allowance. The NOOBs must be regulated, or the "thing" that makes this forum great is gone overnight. The issue is "how".

I have already posted the easiest solution to the frequent "Hi, it's my first post, what turboz do I getz?" ass-raping sessions. JUST delete the thread and send a simple PM to the NOOB. It solves a dozen problems instantly, keeps everybody happy, and is more likely to get the NOOB to respect the forum and stick around than any other solution. With the number of mods around here, nobody should have to delete a NOOB thread more than once a week and probably less. Just think about the headache we've been through over the last few months about this shit and how easy my solution solves everything.

While I'm being helpful, how about these:

Instead of the "OMG-READ THIS FAST" announcement, maybe it should read "NOOBS, NEWBS, NEW GUYS, READ THIS FIRST, IT'S IMPORTANT!!!" And in that announcement can be the same general helpful info about where your first thread should be, profile info, sticky's, SEARCH, etc... The "Welcome Aboard" email that the forum auto-sends when you register is never read by anybody so putting anything in there is useless.

Post count requirements have their place. Perhaps there is merit to not allowing a new member to start a thread in any forum other than the Meet&Greet until they have 5 posts. Maybe there is a VB patch that can pop up a window if a new member hits the "NEW THREAD" button in a forum he's not allowed in.. like this:
"You may not start a thread here until you've got 5 posts. The only forum that allows thread starting with less than 5 posts is the Meet&Greet forum." Something like that would be HUGE!!!

I love this forum and I'm not going anywhere, but I feel Sav's pain to the bone. You can't do nothing, but the "something" you do must be effective while not driving the guy off.

Smooches,
Sam

ding ding ding

Sav, I did get the one about miata_drift but by the time I got there, Sam(navy) had already been there and the whole thing was done anyway.

In retrospect, and as I gain mod experience, I'd probably have removed most of that thread except for the constructive (or hilarious) responses and moved it to the meet and greet with a reply at the bottom explaining why. That way everyone gets to save some face and the public wont see us get all bent out of shape.

The real truth of the matter is, if you all respond to a noob with a super intelligent post, the stupid ones will just feel dumb and leave us alone and the smart ones might be intrigued enough to stick around.

I think this is a utopian and somewhat unrealistic view of what happens on the internet and will happen on this forum.

But I still <3 you matt ;)

the dogpiling is getting old. +1 for closing threads and explaining why

Its obvious that these newbs aren't reading the rules, or help tips, or stickies.

How do I know that? "what turboz do i get" "i want turboz for 2k or less" "what duz 12psi does?" threads are still popping up like crazy.

I personally think belittling will just piss people off, and either start flame war with banning needed, or will at least just force a hate between members. We shouldn't make it our business to fuck with people's days, their feelings, or whatever.


However, the newest thread ended well (not great) after the OP came back to apologize, AMONGST the bullshit many longtime members here left for him. That showed some balls ;p I'de have just said peace, and never gotten back on, and never showered people with my crazy low low prices and love.

So what do we do? Make sure the noobs are reading the rules, tips, and stickies.
Make it apparent to the noobs that the rules here mean alot to its members, and that violations are shunned!
We need to push this free information, and slow the nub clutter ;p

Well personally, when I came here, I knew almost nothing about turbo's.
I searched some. But you get a 100 pages of crap to read through and still not find what you are lookning for.

And I think about half of us ask which turbo do we need.

I had only riden in about 3 turbo cars in my life. And the best way to find something out, is to ask someone who knows.
Yes, I tried not to flood with stupidity. But there has to be common ground. I have been here a little over a year. And some of the noobs ask the stupiest questions on earth. And then 33 post later, they are bashing noobs as well.

We have a bashing band wagon here. Some is needed, but not all.

Some people are not as friendly as others. I will give the shirt off my back. But I do not tolerate disrespect. And if I'm cursed at. I don't care if you ban me. I'm bashing back.

A forum and I got into it one day. There was only 3 post on one thread, about my question.

So I made a post and explained the situation. They where so stupid. And they didn't want to admit they knew nothing about it. They just started ranting and cusing.

Well, I don't go down like that. I pissed them off for a whole day. They still didn't ban me. They couldnt even do that right.

They were retards.

And now I always talk about their tard-ism's.

How about a rule that every members' first X posts (10, 25, whatever) are moderated BEFORE publishing, unless a moderator approves the newb for full rights? That's the rule in a tech forum that I run. Works well.

thats a good idea. mod approval for the first 10 (or more) posts.

i'm on a forum that does that. it is essentially a two-day no-post period every time you want to post. it sucks.

It's a bad idea.
Creates more work for volunteers, burns people out.

It creates a vicious cycle of people coming to post, not seeing it show up, they post it 15 more times in other sections.. 10 new members a day.. maybe 2 post.. but they post numerous times. Do that everyday, it doesn't work.

Been there and done that. There is no easy way out.

In short: Count me in for the "Only allow them to post their first 10 posts in the meet and greet section". Makes a great deal of sense to me, requires very little overhead on the moderators part.

Basically it all comes back to one thing...there is no way to effectively force people to obey the rules without making it difficult on others.

NOOBS need to listen (search) more and talk less...that's why we have two ears and one mouth.

Forcing newbs to post in one section will solve nothing. So instead of asking a stupid question in an appropriate forum, they'll do it in an inappropriate forum. Making it more difficult to for newbs to find information in the first place. Vicious cycle continues.

Being a ---- when warranted is ok. When you are being a ---- indiscriminately you just looke (more) immature and stupid.

This isn't too difficult.

he said ----...:giggle:

Takes time.

When things take time and volunteers stop enjoying the site, they stop coming around.

When they stop coming around they quit or get booted off from mod status.

Cycle begins again with new mods, except now they get a shitty job of dealing with posts in moderation que.

There is no easy way, but the most effective way is the forum itself moderating its noobs over 5 moderators who will get over worked quickly.

Report posts, send pms or deal with the noobs in thread.

Everyone was a newb at one point. Hell, in my ignorance I still ask dumb questions and give dumb answers. Some hazing is important. Answers can be done with moderation and a more helpful attitude. A couple "use the search" answers, maybe a link to a helpful thread along with a Y8's style "heads up newb" posting should be sufficient. If the guy doesn't wise up and continues douchebaggery maybe he gets a time out. I don't think the mods should be the only ones to help with this.

The newb bashing is simply too easy on a forum. Someone posts the "waz turboz" crap and the responses are far more harsh than anyone would do in person. Some dummy at DQ walks up and starts taking crap out their ass you aren't going to start cursing and flaming them. You might brush them off or make up some crap to play with them but the FU IDIOT GTFO attitude wouldn't fly.

Stupid newb post? Take a deep breath. You don't need to flame every one of them. You can be helpful yet smart-assed at the same time. Lot's of the newbs are used to other forums (like m-net) where everyone's personable and helpful regardless of the ignorance shown in the question.

No this shouldn't be M-net. It should be irreverent, funny and harsh at times. Flaming every ignorant question that come across the board isn't helpful though. I don't advocate letting them completely off the hook but there must be a happy medium.

How to moderate that is other poeples bailywick. I'm just adding my 2 cents.

What about having less rules? Apparently nobody reads the original email with the rules, so why not just shorten it to say something like:

Welcome to the forum. We have 3 rules and they are enforced rigorously.
1. Search before you ask a question; chances are it has been asked (and answered) before.
2. Read the stickies; they are kept at the beginning of the section because they contain such useful information.
3. Put your location in your profile, and basics on your car in your signature.

It's short and sweet, and then you could make the same thing pop up whenever they hit the New Thread button with less than 10 posts or something. Giving the new guys more to do before they can post will drive them away, and ignoring them will probably just make the situation worse.

Just my $.02

Edit: Sorry if this is a dead thread, I just realized how long ago the last post was.

I like the idea of the rules following what mood I'm currently in.

Good post:)

Ok as a newb myself and my first post was not the best and got cocky too because i did not understand your american humuor i can understand what you guys are saying, a lot of forums have problems with newb posts the few forums i am involved with have setup newb forums where first time poster can ask a question without the fear of being flamed to death, in doing so its up to the regular members to decide either the question deserve answer or not, if you don't like the way the question is worded don't answer it simple. I hope i have not over step the mark here being the Newb, but i have enjoyed reading all your post, as i will be the first to admit i know jack shit about Miatas but learning heaps by just reading. I think you guys have to remember too you all were newbs once and you can't get it right every time.
Feel Free to flame me as i just brought myself some new flame proof under wear lol

Cheers
Dr.