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Old 09-11-2012, 12:27 PM   #121
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Thanks guys. Sounds like this is will keep me set for a while. As far as Linux goes, I have always been curious about running Ubuntu because I've heard it is much more stable and bad *** than Windows.

Also, I've been reading a lot about Steam Games on Reddit.....I'm sure I might become addicted to that at some point.

I should have asked this earlier, is there some link one of you can give me so that I can start to learn some of this computer hardware/tech talk? Like a forum, lol. I'd search myself, but I'm afraid I'll end up on the CR of computers...
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Old 09-11-2012, 12:37 PM   #122
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Man... Some of the advice in this thread is killin me.
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Old 09-11-2012, 12:42 PM   #123
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Thanks guys. Sounds like this is will keep me set for a while. As far as Linux goes, I have always been curious about running Ubuntu because I've heard it is much more stable and bad *** than Windows.

Also, I've been reading a lot about Steam Games on Reddit.....I'm sure I might become addicted to that at some point.

I should have asked this earlier, is there some link one of you can give me so that I can start to learn some of this computer hardware/tech talk? Like a forum, lol. I'd search myself, but I'm afraid I'll end up on the CR of computers...
Luckily, the CR of computers is Xbox Live, so I don't think you will have any problem with that.

Also, Steam will be offered on Linux (specifically Ubuntu is what they will be supporting) so you are in luck if you want to try out Ubuntu.

If you want to try out linux, usually the 2 biggest problems are WIFI and GPU drivers. This is a desktop, so we don't care about WIFI. And a quick google search shows the HD6450 should work fine with Ubuntu. So Ubuntu should be plug-n-play.
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Old 09-11-2012, 12:55 PM   #124
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Stay away from ATI on Linux. I have nVidia cards on my desktops/laptops for longer than I can remember, and support has been GREAT.
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Old 09-11-2012, 01:05 PM   #125
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Man... Some of the advice in this thread is killin me.
Why?

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Luckily, the CR of computers is Xbox Live, so I don't think you will have any problem with that.

Also, Steam will be offered on Linux (specifically Ubuntu is what they will be supporting) so you are in luck if you want to try out Ubuntu.

If you want to try out linux, usually the 2 biggest problems are WIFI and GPU drivers. This is a desktop, so we don't care about WIFI. And a quick google search shows the HD6450 should work fine with Ubuntu. So Ubuntu should be plug-n-play.
I may just stay away from Linux for now. I should read more into it before I go and do something stupid.

I do care about wifi, actually. I probably won't be able to get hooked up to an Ethernet cable for a while. Luckily, my wireless is great.

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Stay away from ATI on Linux. I have nVidia cards on my desktops/laptops for longer than I can remember, and support has been GREAT.
Yeah, I'll probably stay away from Linux for now until I feel confident enough to know what I am doing.
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Old 09-11-2012, 01:20 PM   #126
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Reverant is right about ATI graphics cards, but since you won't be doing anything very graphics intensive, I wouldn't worry about it.

The beauty of Linux is that you can dual-boot it. By default, when you install it along side windows, it will ask you each time you start the computer which OS it will boot to.

The only issue is that by default it will pick Ubuntu after 10 (or maybe 20) seconds of inactivity. And the only way to fix that (as far as I know) is some dirty command line work that you don't want to do.

Also you can install Ubuntu on a virtual machine from inside windows. My favorite is VirtualBox, which is free. This will allow you to actually run Ubuntu almost like a program from inside windows. That is the best way to start. You can even download pre-made ubuntu images for virtualbox if you don't want to install it yourself (which is probably a waste of time for someone who just wants to try it out).

Here is where you can find the pre-built Ubuntu systems that you can download and then run in VirtualBox. You can download VirtualBox here. VMWare View and some others will probably work, but I haven't tried any of those.
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:25 PM   #127
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Reverant: I must disagree.

Over the past year, there is a very long laundry list of issues with nVidia that ATI simply doesn't have. Even Linus Torvalds has gone off on nVidia recently on the topic.

The game has changed. Now you must research video cards for your intended use as each manufacturer has certain things they either can only do or do much better than the other - my latest Linux server/HTPC box *must* use an ATI card, as an example. Certain things I'm using it for either cannot use nVidia or must use some really nasty hacks to use nVidia hardware.
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:30 PM   #128
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I've never even heard of VirtualBox- any idea how it compares to VMWare in terms of performance / resource utilization?


The biggest problem I have with Linux in general is application support. For applications that are part of the "package manager" (a suite of apps tailored to the specific version of the OS and installable from within the OS in a manner similar to Windows updates) it's a breeze. Just point, click, installed. The problem comes when trying to install an application which is not natively supported within the package manager.

15 years ago I was able to figure out how to build and install applications on VMS and Unix (real mainframe Unix, not this penguiney stuff.) I won't say that I was a wizard by any stretch, but I was at least competent to use a "big" computer without too much frustration.

But with Ubuntu? Well, either times have changed or I've become an utter retard, because I can't even get TunerStudio to run on it. It mocks me with its foul, fish-smelling breath. I can't even begin to imagine how badly Steam would kick my *** if I tried to install it.
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:38 PM   #129
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Do you not know how to use apt and wget, Joe?

(edit) Full disclaimer: I don't have a clue how to install anything from the GUI, I only use CLI even from GUI desktops in *nix to install anything or do any serious OS-level work.
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:42 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viperormiata View Post
I should have asked this earlier, is there some link one of you can give me so that I can start to learn some of this computer hardware/tech talk? Like a forum, lol. I'd search myself, but I'm afraid I'll end up on the CR of computers...
Steam is amazing. You should install it and then install tf2 and play with the mt.net clan.

Toms Hardware is a good pc site with info about how different hardware compares to each other. They do a ton to testing.

I personally frequent ocforums.com. It is sort of like the mt.net of computer forums. It is all about overclocking, but has a ton of great info on general hardware. Honestly I wish I had stuck with just PC's as my hobby. So much cheaper then modding a damn car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
Stay away from ATI on Linux. I have nVidia cards on my desktops/laptops for longer than I can remember, and support has been GREAT.
This is how I have always been. Installing nVidia linux drivers has always been "easy" since back in like 02-03. You simply kill X, run the installer, then restart X. Generally has been much easier then any ATI card I have tried.

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Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
Reverant: I must disagree.

Over the past year, there is a very long laundry list of issues with nVidia that ATI simply doesn't have. Even Linus Torvalds has gone off on nVidia recently on the topic.

The game has changed. Now you must research video cards for your intended use as each manufacturer has certain things they either can only do or do much better than the other - my latest Linux server/HTPC box *must* use an ATI card, as an example. Certain things I'm using it for either cannot use nVidia or must use some really nasty hacks to use nVidia hardware.
What is your HTPC doing that requires an ATI card? I am honestly curious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I've never even heard of VirtualBox- any idea how it compares to VMWare in terms of performance / resource utilization?


The biggest problem I have with Linux in general is application support. For applications that are part of the "package manager" (a suite of apps tailored to the specific version of the OS and installable from within the OS in a manner similar to Windows updates) it's a breeze. Just point, click, installed. The problem comes when trying to install an application which is not natively supported within the package manager.

15 years ago I was able to figure out how to build and install applications on VMS and Unix (real mainframe Unix, not this penguiney stuff.) I won't say that I was a wizard by any stretch, but I was at least competent to use a "big" computer without too much frustration.

But with Ubuntu? Well, either times have changed or I've become an utter retard, because I can't even get TunerStudio to run on it. It mocks me with its foul, fish-smelling breath. I can't even begin to imagine how badly Steam would kick my *** if I tried to install it.
I user Virtual Box exclusively on my work laptop, home desktop, and Macbook. I use ESXi 5.0 on all my servers. Honestly for a desktop I would not even bother using anything other then Virtual Box. It is free and just as fast as VMware player. My good friend runs Mint (Redhat clone) as his main OS. He has Windows 7 installed in virtual box, and still plays Diablo 3 fine in it.

If you honestly want to give it a try getting TS working in Ubuntu let me know. I have it working fine on my laptop and could probably give you any help you need getting it working on your machine.
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:46 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
I personally frequent ocforums.com. It is sort of like the mt.net of computer forums. It is all about overclocking, but has a ton of great info on general hardware. Honestly I wish I had stuck with just PC's as my hobby. So much cheaper then modding a damn car.
Started as an AT'er/HardOC'er/FiringSquad here. Seems like we had a similar path.

Quote:
What is your HTPC doing that requires an ATI card? I am honestly curious.
Hardware acceleration of certain types of video in my specific case. I'm not using a software decoder, and nVidia requires a really nasty hack to try to get it working that enough people have reported issues with that I'm just going ATI.
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:54 PM   #132
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Why?
I don't like to argue with people on the forums i like, it always ends bad.

I just think for what you're going to be doing people are suggesting things that WAYYYY exceed anything you'll need. Then, on the other end, people are overlooking some of the more important aspects of a computer.

This thread has gone on long enough, and i do not feel any of my input would be helpful at this point.
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:57 PM   #133
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Thanks for the link.

Looks like this one is similar, but it has the AMD Eight core FX8100....I have no idea what that is..everything else looks to be the same or similar.
Get up to $250 off Acer Desktops and All-In-One PCs, Best Deal, Cheapest Price, Free Shipping
Bulldozer is a **** architecture. Get an old Phenom, or an i5. Nothing else is worth the money atm for a desktop untill AMD finally comes out with piledriver. If you really want to save cash, check out an A-series, but I'd go with an i5 hands down at this point.

If it means anything to you, *all* of my built desktop processors bought within the past 2 years are i5s.
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:59 PM   #134
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Started as an AT'er/HardOC'er/FiringSquad here. Seems like we had a similar path.

Hardware acceleration of certain types of video in my specific case. I'm not using a software decoder, and nVidia requires a really nasty hack to try to get it working that enough people have reported issues with that I'm just going ATI.
What type of video files are you trying to play that needs a hardware decoder? Please give me more info, I honestly have not heard of this and am curious.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:05 PM   #135
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What type of video files are you trying to play that needs a hardware decoder? Please give me more info, I honestly have not heard of this and am curious.
You are asking for more details then I bothered to research, Shoes. I did a quick glance at requirements through XBMC installation docs, saw warnings about nVidia drivers and no note about current ATI drivers for hardware accelerated playback of some video codecs, did a quick google to confirm the above, and went with it. I can dig it up again if you *really* want when I have more time.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:12 PM   #136
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Stay away from ATI on Linux. I have nVidia cards on my desktops/laptops for longer than I can remember, and support has been GREAT.
Beat me too it.

I really dont like dual booting in general. Windows is like a spoiled little kid that doesnt like it when other kids are getting attention.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:13 PM   #137
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FYI, Nvidia has been working with Valve on Linux drivers for Steam on Linux, so I expect the battle of the Linux graphics drivers will be turning in Nvidia's favor soon.

Joe, you won't need to try to install Steam on Linux, because Valve is working on a native port.


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If you honestly want to give it a try getting TS working in Ubuntu let me know. I have it working fine on my laptop and could probably give you any help you need getting it working on your machine.
Any quick tips? I was planning on getting a cheap SSD for my old netbook and reinstalling XP on it to tune, but if I can run it on Ubuntu I will DEFINITELY do that. I assume you are using WINE. The only thing I would be worried about is USB or USB->Serial (or parallel or whatever interfaces with the ECU).
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:27 PM   #138
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F
Any quick tips? I was planning on getting a cheap SSD for my old netbook and reinstalling XP on it to tune, but if I can run it on Ubuntu I will DEFINITELY do that. I assume you are using WINE. The only thing I would be worried about is USB or USB->Serial (or parallel or whatever interfaces with the ECU).
You do not need to use WINE. TS is a java app and runs natively. Simply install Java and download and extract the most recent TS from the website. Then run #./TunerStudio.sh from that directory and Tuner Studio should start. The built in USB on the MS3x works fine in Linux and OSX. Just verify with dmesg that it shows up when you plug it in and power on the car.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:28 PM   #139
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Reverant: I must disagree.

Over the past year, there is a very long laundry list of issues with nVidia that ATI simply doesn't have. Even Linus Torvalds has gone off on nVidia recently on the topic.
I call bull. I have exactly 0 problems with my nVidia cards (Quadro, Geforce 8800GTX, GTS 210). I've read Linus' rant and I laughed out loud at the cry baby that he is.

Audience member: I had to compile the drivers for my nVidia card and then insert the module into the kernel for the card to work. OMFG that is so difficult. Boooooooooooooooooooo.

Linus: Yeah, **** that ****. Install windows instead.

10-20 years ago, we were BEGGING for ANY kind of driver from manufacturers. Granted, we preferred open source, but if closed source meant that we could at least get the hardware to work, we would still prefer that to nothing.

Linus and RMS need a reality check. Linus is the 1%, yet acts like he is the 99%.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:33 PM   #140
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I call bull. I have exactly 0 problems with my nVidia cards (Quadro, Geforce 8800GTX, GTS 210). I've read Linus' rant and I laughed out loud at the cry baby that he is.

Audience member: I had to compile the drivers for my nVidia card and then insert the module into the kernel for the card to work. OMFG that is so difficult. Boooooooooooooooooooo.

Linus: Yeah, **** that ****. Install windows instead.

10-20 years ago, we were BEGGING for ANY kind of driver from manufacturers. Granted, we preferred open source, but if closed source meant that we could at least get the hardware to work, we would still prefer that to nothing.

Linus and RMS need a reality check. Linus is the 1%, yet acts like he is the 99%.
[Phoronix] NVIDIA Confirms Linux Driver Problems

One example of which bit a co-worker.

Note that I'm not saying ATI is some god-king card, but to try to argue that ATI is always inferior to nVidia with the current state of the drivers is not entirely true. See: My recommendation for people to research for themselves if an ATI card may be superior for their purposes.
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