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Old 09-04-2012, 01:26 AM   #361
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Well, that fun, even if (name of dirty rat bastard redacted) had to quit the party early and doom us all to fiery death.
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:35 AM   #362
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Despite being walked on during the last wave, was good time.

Not sure I'm the best demo, but it worked decently.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:39 AM   #363
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I hate having to quit on the last wave. We were so strong up to that point, damnit.

We really need to be better at collecting money, especially during the last wave. Ubers and crit boosts are mandatory for survival.

I think I have concluded that upgrading multiple weapons for one class is unpossible. Consumes to many funds and doesnt leave you with enough power in the end.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:47 AM   #364
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I think we need to ditch pyro and either dual wrangled engineer or dual heavy (brass beast/natascha). I was doing ok as our demoman, but I wasn't a rockstar. I have really learned to love the Scottish resistance though.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:47 AM   #365
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Joe doesn't love anyome from mt.net apparently. :(
he's too busy with his mom's shoes and his my little ponys.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:09 PM   #366
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Dude, my mom's shoes haven't fit me since I was 11.

Er, I mean...

(crap.)

I'll be happy to come in as demo or engie on the next one. I'm partial to pyro on these maps where you get wave after wave of scouts and soldiers, as you can just light 'em up and let 'em burn on their own, but those last couple of waves definitely could have used some more lead in the air.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:51 PM   #367
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A pyro or scout is absolutely necessary for money collection.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:55 PM   #368
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Yeah, that too.

Honestly, I think having a scout is kind of pointless when a pyro is present. Pyro can easily deal with snipers, and money pickup, *and* spychecking, making him a very versatile class. When his backburner is equipped and upgraded, he's also quite effective against the bigger bots once they've been separated from the hoard.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:09 PM   #369
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Yeah, that too.

Honestly, I think having a scout is kind of pointless when a pyro is present. Pyro can easily deal with snipers, and money pickup, *and* spychecking, making him a very versatile class. When his backburner is equipped and upgraded, he's also quite effective against the bigger bots once they've been separated from the hoard.
Scouts are a support class, not a class like the pyro in MVM.

A properly upgraded and played Scout is woah for what it gives. The teams I've played on play a soldier in place of where we should have a scout due to the soldier's buff - but scout completely outclasses soldier in what they are able to bring to the group.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:10 PM   #370
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A pyro or scout is absolutely necessary for money collection.
Pyro sucks for picking up money, has to be a scout. Scouts pick up money at 2x the range as everyone else and have a magnetic effect. Scout needs to build extra *****, full damage resist, full heal over time, move speed and jump. All they do it run around getting money, killing snipers, marking and bonking.

2 heavy's > 2 eng but heaves need to go full damage res more then dps as a dead heavy is useless.

Pryo I see being a waste as they die way to fast. Again they need to have full damage res and put more damage into burn over time then up frount damage. Good if there is a spot to back blast bomb off.

I'm starting to think a medic might be better then a Eng and we might wont to try it once as I think the medic can get a multiple heal upgrade and heals heavies faster.

Demo is give and take as it depends on the person's ability to get the bombs down before medics. Maybe switch it out for a 2nd buff banner?

Example. Last night I have 1 blast res, 2 crit res, and 3 bullet res. Heaves and super heaves didn't kill me and only hit for 2-5hp per shot.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:11 PM   #371
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Joe. You gotta get more comfortable with the airblast. Sending the bomb into the canyon or down a chute is as good as money considering its one less thing to worry about for a good 5 minutes.

I agree with Jeff. I am curious what a medic could do in MVM. I will happily volunteer as that is the second class I play with most.

When we had Virant with a brass beast and myself with a Natasha it was almost impenetrable. I may have a brass beast for someone if they do not have.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:18 PM   #372
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Joe. You gotta get more comfortable with the airblast. Sending the bomb into the canyon or down a chute is as good as money considering its one less thing to worry about for a good 5 minutes.
A good pyro is nuts. I think soldier, spy, and sniper are pretty much useless in MVM, and medic may be not very worthwhile.

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I agree with Jeff. I am curious what a medic could do in MVM. I will happily volunteer as that is the second class I play with most.
The problem we have had with medics in the past is they don't really add any damage unless they go kritzkrieg, and the kritzkrieg is obsolete compared to canteens. Hence, we'd be unable to keep up with heavy DPS required waves. I.e., any wave with two tanks was an auto-lose for us.

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When we had Virant with a brass beast and myself with a Natasha it was almost impenetrable. I may have a brass beast for someone if they do not have.
None of you guys ever seem to want to invite me to a game anymore :tear:
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:31 PM   #373
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Agreed- I've not been sufficiently aggressive with the airblast- not just in MvM but in the regular games as well. I definitely missed a couple of opportunities to displace the bomb, and I'd mostly been focused on trying to separate robomedics from their uber-targets.

Having a second engie would be beneficial, especially with the wrangler equipped from an area where he is out of range of the incoming army but has good visibility down the choke points. I'm not sure that having a medic on the team would justify the loss of firepower, however. Once the robots get sufficiently near spawn, I'm perfectly happy to charge face-first into death in order to make a save, and then immediately buy back into the game with minimal loss of time.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:33 PM   #374
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Agreed- I've not been sufficiently aggressive with the airblast- not just in MvM but in the regular games as well. I definitely missed a couple of opportunities to displace the bomb, and I'd mostly been focused on trying to separate robomedics from their uber-targets.

Having a second engie would be beneficial, especially with the wrangler equipped from an area where he is out of range of the incoming army but has good visibility down the choke points. I'm not sure that having a medic on the team would justify the loss of firepower, however. Once the robots get sufficiently near spawn, I'm perfectly happy to charge face-first into death in order to make a save, and then immediately buy back into the game with minimal loss of time.
Dispensers give us most of the effect of the medic anyways. It's not a bad choice at all to go with MOAR ENGIES since we don't see a loss of firepower with them and get most of a medic from them too.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:44 PM   #375
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The only thing about the engine that bothers me is his lack of mobility, especially in waves where you have multiple giant / uber enemies incoming. It's hard for him respond to changing battlefield conditions (eg: to move up to the front / fall back to spawn while under fire) as he's totally defenseless while carrying his sentry. And a single Sentry Buster essentially takes him offline for however long it takes to draw it out away from the dispenser, let it detonate, and then run back.

Engie is one of my favorite classes in maps like payload or CTF, where he can set up a nice little campsite and wait for disorganized enemies to wander into his line of fire one by one, but I haven't really mastered him in MvM yet.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:47 PM   #376
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The only thing about the engine that bothers me is his lack of mobility, especially in waves where you have multiple giant / uber enemies incoming. It's hard for him respond to changing battlefield conditions (eg: to move up to the front / fall back to spawn while under fire) as he's totally defenseless while carrying his sentry.
Frankly, the engies I've liked most have left their sentry where they had it (to take care of oncoming enemies) while they went with the rest of the group to DPS the tanks/big enemies.

Having the small fry off our backs while we take care of the nasty stuff is really, really nice.

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And a single Sentry Buster essentially takes him offline for however long it takes to draw it out away from the dispenser, let it detonate, and then run back.
This is the entire purpose of the disposable sentry upgrade.

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Engie is one of my favorite classes in maps like payload or CTF, where he can set up a nice little campsite and wait for disorganized enemies to wander into his line of fire one by one, but I haven't really mastered him in MvM yet.
Heh. Yeah, I've seen you there.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:00 PM   #377
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This is the entire purpose of the disposable sentry upgrade.
I thought the Sentry Buster ignored disposable mini-sentries and only went for the big ones, no? Or do you just mean to leave it behind as a CYA while maneuvering.



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Heh. Yeah, I've seen you there.
I am the *CAMP MASTER* baby! I think my best is something like 30 sentry kills in a single life.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:05 PM   #378
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I thought the Sentry Buster ignored disposable mini-sentries and only went for the big ones, no? Or do you just mean to leave it behind as a CYA while maneuvering.
Whenever I've played engi, it's always gone for the closest sentry to it. It's a question of placing your disposable sentry correctly - at least in my experience, YMMV as always.

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I am the *CAMP MASTER* baby! I think my best is something like 30 sentry kills in a single life.
Yeah, the other team probably hates your guts :P
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:21 PM   #379
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Whenever I've played engi, it's always gone for the closest sentry to it. It's a question of placing your disposable sentry correctly - at least in my experience, YMMV as always.
Hmm. I was just going off of what the TF2 Wiki said in that regard:
If the Engineer has a Sentry Gun and disposable Sentry Gun deployed, the Sentry Buster will go for the large Sentry Gun, even if the Mini-Sentry is doing more damage. If the Sentry Gun is destroyed before the Sentry Buster can reach it, the Sentry Buster will run to the spot where the Sentry used to be and detonate. (Source)
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Yeah, the other team probably hates your guts :P
Well, I can't imagine why.

I don't typically spawn camp, but in CTF maps which lend themselves towards intel camping, I typically try to ally with one or two other engines and set up a sentry farm in or near the intel which allows us to perform complete area denial against incoming enemy. Even a cloaked spy is no match for three sentries in a triangulated array, with engines and dispensers handling sapper removal and repair. I'm perfectly happy to let the folks upstairs have the guts and glory trying to ****** the enemy intel so long as I can completely prevent the enemy from ever laying hands on ours.

Actually, I remember one match where we actually managed to plant a pair of sentries and a teleporter exit inside the enemy intel. That one had me laughing pretty hard.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:32 PM   #380
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Hmm. I was just going off of what the TF2 Wiki said in that regard:
If the Engineer has a Sentry Gun and disposable Sentry Gun deployed, the Sentry Buster will go for the large Sentry Gun, even if the Mini-Sentry is doing more damage. If the Sentry Gun is destroyed before the Sentry Buster can reach it, the Sentry Buster will run to the spot where the Sentry used to be and detonate. (Source)
If the disposable sentry is in the path the sentry buster follows to blow up the sentry, it blows up when it runs across the disposable.

Or at least it has every time I've gone engi.

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Well, I can't imagine why.

I don't typically spawn camp, but in CTF maps which lend themselves towards intel camping, I typically try to ally with one or two other engines and set up a sentry farm in or near the intel which allows us to perform complete area denial against incoming enemy. Even a cloaked spy is no match for three sentries in a triangulated array, with engines and dispensers handling sapper removal and repair. I'm perfectly happy to let the folks upstairs have the guts and glory trying to ****** the enemy intel so long as I can completely prevent the enemy from ever laying hands on ours.

Actually, I remember one match where we actually managed to plant a pair of sentries and a teleporter exit inside the enemy intel. That one had me laughing pretty hard.
That is so evil, Joe. Lulz!
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