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Old 01-10-2012, 02:13 AM   #1
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Default 350WHP 1.6L build/help/suggestions

Short and sweet: I hope

I have a 1.6. I am going to use it to power another chassis (irrelevant). Drivetrain is taken care of.

My goal is 300-350whp. E85 for fuel, 1000cc injectors, for now TO4E (future is 3071/2871), megasquirt, cops.


Local shop said they could port/polish the head and the dude is one of the best so hopefully that helps a lot. He said he could open up the ports significantly.

Planning on Supertech stuff for the head (springs valves lifters)

Bottom end is what I'm unsure of,

What pistons/rods are good? i don't REALLY want to spend Carillo money if i don't have to.

SCAT stuff scares me at that price but Eagle seems middle of road?


Pistons, I'm thinking I'll do 10.5:1 since It's E85. Supertech or CP? or something else???

unaddressed items: Intake Manifold, Cams (ideas?)


SO, what can you suggest/what can I do to make this happen???
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:41 AM   #2
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Also, what is the limiting factor here for making power? Why don't people attempt to make more with built motors?

Maybe this thread should be in engine performance. My fault
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:45 AM   #3
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Coming from someone who was going to do the same thing, get a 1.8 and built it. Building a 1.6 is a terrible idea.
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:46 AM   #4
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Also I'm pretty sure you will not get far with 10.5 compression and boost. This isn't a Honda motor. (could be wrong*)
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:49 AM   #5
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First, use a 1.8. I don't care what the chassis/application is, it will fit into the exact same spot a 1.6 will, and it will make another 20-30whp on top and spool earlier. The turbo that you'll need to use to make 350whp will not spool before 5000rpm on a 1.6 liter, but you can get it to full song by 4000-4200 on a 1.8.

If you're using a 1.8, I'd suggest you buy the motor from us. I can build you an 11:1 E85-specific 99-00 or VVT motor for ~$3k+core that will do the trick. I can build you a 1.6 shortblock too, but you will be happier with a 1.8.

At those power levels, an intake manifold is a no-brainer. You can copy the re-grafted Blox manifold I did a couple of years ago or have a custom one made, either way.

The reason few try to make huge power is because the car weighs 2300lbs soaking wet, so when you put 300+whp in one they turn into a rocketship. There are a few members who talk about building big power cars, but very few of them ever come to fruition.
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:43 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown7815 View Post
Also I'm pretty sure you will not get far with 10.5 compression and boost. This isn't a Honda motor. (could be wrong*)
With e85 he could get away with 12:1 probably....e85's octane is usually somewhere between 105-108

Last edited by Boost Joose; 01-10-2012 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:06 AM   #7
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Why don't any vendors sell or anyone I see use ferrea to build their head? ferrea is worlds above supertech in materials and quality.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:35 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
First, use a 1.8. I don't care what the chassis/application is, it will fit into the exact same spot a 1.6 will, and it will make another 20-30whp on top and spool earlier. The turbo that you'll need to use to make 350whp will not spool before 5000rpm on a 1.6 liter, but you can get it to full song by 4000-4200 on a 1.8.

If you're using a 1.8, I'd suggest you buy the motor from us. I can build you an 11:1 E85-specific 99-00 or VVT motor for ~$3k+core that will do the trick. I can build you a 1.6 shortblock too, but you will be happier with a 1.8.

At those power levels, an intake manifold is a no-brainer. You can copy the re-grafted Blox manifold I did a couple of years ago or have a custom one made, either way.

The reason few try to make huge power is because the car weighs 2300lbs soaking wet, so when you put 300+whp in one they turn into a rocketship. There are a few members who talk about building big power cars, but very few of them ever come to fruition.


I appreciate the Info Sav, and I understand the logic behind the 1.8

I have everything for the 1.6 already and I'm just curious as to what the possibilities are with this motor.

I get 10psi at ~4k now out of my turbo and its shitty journal bearing so I don't know how much worse it can get.

I don't plan on this being a Keyboard build either(everyone says this) I know a couple of guys that are at the 400whp mark with 1.8's and I want to see where this can take me.


Thanks for the help
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:02 AM   #9
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Listen to sav. Everything he said is tried and true.
When going for big power you either:
1) stick with tried/true methods
2) spend a ton of money to be "different" with similar or worse results
3) failaids

The 1.6 head sucks, even worked over it will still flow equal to or less than a bone stock nb head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boost Joose View Post
With e85 he could get away with 12:1 probably....e85's octane is usually somewhere between 115-118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boost Joose View Post
Why don't any vendors sell or anyone I see use ferrea to build their head? ferrea is worlds above supertech in materials and quality.
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:17 AM   #10
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Explinations please?
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:20 AM   #11
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Just stop posting.
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
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Just stop posting.
Wow thanks, what a sweetheart
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:30 PM   #13
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Even though I like where this is going, I'd like any other suggestions.

I recognize the validity of 1.8 swap, however after much discouragement and deliberation I've decided to stay 1.6
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:59 PM   #14
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stay 1.6 be a bouce....B16s make powah too you know!
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theshdwconspracy View Post
Even though I like where this is going, I'd like any other suggestions.

I recognize the validity of 1.8 swap, however after much discouragement and deliberation I've decided to stay 1.6
Just my , but a 1.8 core is like $200. It can't be cost, and items for the 1.8 are typically cheaper than for the 1.6. Why go this route?
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theshdwconspracy View Post

I have a 1.6. I am going to use it to power another chassis (irrelevant). Drivetrain is taken care of.

My goal is 300-350whp. E85 for fuel, 1000cc injectors, for now TO4E (future is 3071/2871), megasquirt, cops.
Question. How is the drivetrain taken care of?

Im not huge into turbo knowledge but my intuition tells me that the TO4E will be maxed before you see 320 and the 2871 will be giving all its got at 350.. someone correct me if im wrong please.

How much $ are you willing to throw into building a 350hp 1.6L just curious. also how long do you expect it to last?

all these are design considerations which will help you get this set up.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:39 PM   #17
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If I want a good 1.8 the core will be more then I have to build it from there still. I have a 1.6 manifold a 1.6 MS etc that I'd have to sell at a loss when I already have two 1.6's ready to go. I'm going to turn the boost up on my stock and see how long it lasts while I build the spare.

Chelsea D ran a 30r on his 1.6 and it was bone stock and he made just over 300whp and it lasted him for years like that.

I figure I can do it. It's not really "final" numbers just convenience.

I know this will only result a 1.6 v 1.8 battle but suggestions for the motor build vs motor choice would be cool.

I'm also "that kid" that does ---- just a little bit differently and it's just how I've always been. It isnt for much else outside of ease and uniqueness. I plan to do someshit I've never seen done before and that's all
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theshdwconspracy View Post
If I want a good 1.8 the core will be more then I have to build it from there still. I have a 1.6 manifold a 1.6 MS etc that I'd have to sell at a loss when I already have two 1.6's ready to go. I'm going to turn the boost up on my stock and see how long it lasts while I build the spare.

Chelsea D ran a 30r on his 1.6 and it was bone stock and he made just over 300whp and it lasted him for years like that.

I figure I can do it. It's not really "final" numbers just convenience.

I know this will only result a 1.6 v 1.8 battle but suggestions for the motor build vs motor choice would be cool.

I'm also "that kid" that does ---- just a little bit differently and it's just how I've always been. It isnt for much else outside of ease and uniqueness. I plan to do someshit I've never seen done before and that's all


A quick search in AZ returns a core for as cheap as $125 (Yeah, this should illustrate why I bitch about WA prices in other posts :()- if $125 is out of your budget (All the extra cost you should see is oil pan, which is $75 from planet miata), you have bigger problems. A "1.6 MS" should run a 1.8 as well. I mean, what? Hell, you should be able to sell your 1.6 for $200 to offset the cost of the 1.8.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yank View Post
Question. How is the drivetrain taken care of?

Im not huge into turbo knowledge but my intuition tells me that the TO4E will be maxed before you see 320 and the 2871 will be giving all its got at 350.. someone correct me if im wrong please.

How much $ are you willing to throw into building a 350hp 1.6L just curious. also how long do you expect it to last?

all these are design considerations which will help you get this set up.
FC trans, TII drivetrain. TO4E is bigger than 3071 and should be good past my power goals


Looking final cost ~2500+ for a fully built motor which might get built in stages. I can't just THROW DOWN on a fully built motor out of pocket at once. It would take me forever to get that kind of lump sum
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Old 01-10-2012, 11:20 PM   #20
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check out my 1.6 build. megasquirt china 2870 turbo, e85, 1000cc, slightly ported stock head, stock intake manifold,cops, 949 rods, supertech 8.8:1 pistons.
324rwhp @ 20psi on a freshly built motor. Would easily make 350+ after my motor was broken in but got lazy.

goodluck with your build!
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