84-85 RX7 GSL Differential
04-17-2008, 03:41 PM
#23
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1337Chris,
A tip- if you know that you can get fact based knowledge like prices and such- find them- mention in your post that you've bloody found them and then you can ask something like - "is this example price reasonable". At least that show some small amount of effort on your part.
Your approach shows that you know nothing and don't care to figure things out on your own- that's an approach much better suited to miata.net, so that's why we sent you there.
A tip- if you know that you can get fact based knowledge like prices and such- find them- mention in your post that you've bloody found them and then you can ask something like - "is this example price reasonable". At least that show some small amount of effort on your part.
Your approach shows that you know nothing and don't care to figure things out on your own- that's an approach much better suited to miata.net, so that's why we sent you there.
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04-17-2008, 10:38 PM
#24
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1337Chris,
A tip- if you know that you can get fact based knowledge like prices and such- find them- mention in your post that you've bloody found them and then you can ask something like - "is this example price reasonable". At least that show some small amount of effort on your part.
Your approach shows that you know nothing and don't care to figure things out on your own- that's an approach much better suited to miata.net, so that's why we sent you there.
A tip- if you know that you can get fact based knowledge like prices and such- find them- mention in your post that you've bloody found them and then you can ask something like - "is this example price reasonable". At least that show some small amount of effort on your part.
Your approach shows that you know nothing and don't care to figure things out on your own- that's an approach much better suited to miata.net, so that's why we sent you there.
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04-17-2008, 10:51 PM
#25
Come on, how many people are jumping all over you about this?
Braineack
m2cupcar
patsmx5
ben
Mx5-4me
fussball.biturbo
All said your asking stupid newb questions, and that you failed to search. Nobody's believes you searched. You didn't.
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04-17-2008, 11:04 PM
#26
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I search things, but I don't look at every freakin site on the web. I second guess myself on everything I do, and don't believe everything I read on every website. Personally I would rather double check, and triple check everything with people that I can actually talk to before going ahead and doing something myself. Do you not agree there are plenty of people out there that thing they know what they are doing with cars but don't? Do you not agree there are tiny mistakes that can happen when you do performance mods that could cost you the entire project? I want to do stuff right once, and only once. I don't like to waste anything. I want to make absolutely positively sure before I do something that there are people that I have talked to personally, that still have to this day what I am going to do, and have been there, and so I can learn from them what to do so I don't end up making a dumb mistake. Picking out parts for a turbo setup is not something to take lightly. And believing the same idiot's that buy stuff from MOSS, knowing full well it is knock off parts that break relatively soon in most cases, I would not be inclined to believe everything they say. I'm sorry to make such a ruckus out of all this, I just want to make sure to the utmost certainty that when I go a certain route, it is the best one, and I know exactly every last detail of what could happen, and what I should do to guarantee the perfect setup.
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04-17-2008, 11:26 PM
#27
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I search things, but I don't look at every freakin site on the web. I second guess myself on everything I do, and don't believe everything I read on every website. Personally I would rather double check, and triple check everything with people that I can actually talk to before going ahead and doing something myself. Do you not agree there are plenty of people out there that thing they know what they are doing with cars but don't? Do you not agree there are tiny mistakes that can happen when you do performance mods that could cost you the entire project? I want to do stuff right once, and only once. I don't like to waste anything. I want to make absolutely positively sure before I do something that there are people that I have talked to personally, that still have to this day what I am going to do, and have been there, and so I can learn from them what to do so I don't end up making a dumb mistake. Picking out parts for a turbo setup is not something to take lightly. And believing the same idiot's that buy stuff from MOSS, knowing full well it is knock off parts that break relatively soon in most cases, I would not be inclined to believe everything they say. I'm sorry to make such a ruckus out of all this, I just want to make sure to the utmost certainty that when I go a certain route, it is the best one, and I know exactly every last detail of what could happen, and what I should do to guarantee the perfect setup.
If it's this important to you please give us some sort of content and context in your threads.. Generic newb questions get a lot of folks on here pissy because we have spent hours and hours researching via the web or trial and error. You have to take some sort of personal responsibility and have a willingness to contribute to engauge people enough to respond with some sort of thought.
Otherwise you are just another jack hole looking for a free ride.
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04-17-2008, 11:30 PM
#28
Your initial question was "better or worse than a torsen. "
Mind you this is your third differential thread.
Since you obviously searched before hand
, it would seem you would ask more refined application specific questions. Perhaps:
Now I do understand your perspective of second guessing everybody. I'm the same way. I don't accept something as fact just because it's common wisdom. For example I could argue several topics on cylinder head modification for our BP heads. Common wisdom is bigger valves. From all my research (actually buying books and reading them on cylinder head design, building, and modifying, as well as talking to several local bracket racers, and even speaking with the owner of a well know local speed shop), I have come to find bigger valves in our head is not neseccary. However, if you polled this forum, I guarantee you 95% of its members would say they are beneficial. Not because they have any knowledge or understanding of how it's going to affect flow and shrouding given our cam profiles, but because FM offers them, and everyone else does it.
If you want to make an informed decision, make use of your resources. mt.net isn't always the best place to get info. It's a great site, but it has it's shortcomings at times. Go to your local library and find a book or two that cover differentials, and learn the basics of how they work, what characteristics each type offer, and which characteristics are desirable for your application. If you find a clutch type LSD is for you, get another book on how to rebuild them and set them up differentials. You'll learn how to rebuild the LSD, as well as how to setup the rear end's preload, backlash, etc.
All this and you have not yet put a wrench to the car. You're simply educating yourself. By then you'll feel pretty confident you've made the correct decision, and probably feel confident enough to tackle setting up the rear end yourself. Then, you will KNOW it's right.
Mind you this is your third differential thread.
Since you obviously searched before hand
, it would seem you would ask more refined application specific questions. Perhaps: - Is a RX-7 clutch type LSD physically stronger and more durable than a torsen?
- Is a RX-7 clutch type LSD offer better lockup characteristics for <insert your goal for the car, be it drag racing, auto-x, drifting, etc>? Which is preferred for my goal?
- Has anyone here shimmed a RX-7 clutch type LSD tighter than stock? What preload did you set it to?
Now I do understand your perspective of second guessing everybody. I'm the same way. I don't accept something as fact just because it's common wisdom. For example I could argue several topics on cylinder head modification for our BP heads. Common wisdom is bigger valves. From all my research (actually buying books and reading them on cylinder head design, building, and modifying, as well as talking to several local bracket racers, and even speaking with the owner of a well know local speed shop), I have come to find bigger valves in our head is not neseccary. However, if you polled this forum, I guarantee you 95% of its members would say they are beneficial. Not because they have any knowledge or understanding of how it's going to affect flow and shrouding given our cam profiles, but because FM offers them, and everyone else does it.
If you want to make an informed decision, make use of your resources. mt.net isn't always the best place to get info. It's a great site, but it has it's shortcomings at times. Go to your local library and find a book or two that cover differentials, and learn the basics of how they work, what characteristics each type offer, and which characteristics are desirable for your application. If you find a clutch type LSD is for you, get another book on how to rebuild them and set them up differentials. You'll learn how to rebuild the LSD, as well as how to setup the rear end's preload, backlash, etc.
All this and you have not yet put a wrench to the car. You're simply educating yourself. By then you'll feel pretty confident you've made the correct decision, and probably feel confident enough to tackle setting up the rear end yourself. Then, you will KNOW it's right.
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04-18-2008, 06:41 AM
#29
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If it's this important to you please give us some sort of content and context in your threads.. Generic newb questions get a lot of folks on here pissy because we have spent hours and hours researching via the web or trial and error. You have to take some sort of personal responsibility and have a willingness to contribute to engauge people enough to respond with some sort of thought.
Otherwise you are just another jack hole looking for a free ride.
Otherwise you are just another jack hole looking for a free ride.
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04-18-2008, 07:41 AM
#30
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I have no problem trying to contribute. My specialized area is computers. I am a Comp TIA A+ Certified Computer Repair Technician, and in a month I will have my Network+ certification also, and plan on getting some more this summer. If there arises some sort of problem in that area I can help. When I get a chance I am going to make an exact copy of the 6 speed transmission manual that mazda technicians use to train on. That I know none of you have. And I know it would help anyone who has a 6 speed very much. I plan on starting on it sunday.
I'm talking about YOU putting effort in the subject of your theads BEFORE you make it, so your questions aren't completely uneducated.
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04-18-2008, 10:07 AM
#33
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So I will post the exact links of what I found next time before I ask ANYTHING.
So I don't get further yelled at, here is a question I have, the site http://members.aol.com/solomiata/MiataVLSD.html
says you can identify a torsen by moving both half shafts in the same direction at once if the tranny is in neutral, and says if it can't be done it is a Type I. My question is, if the differential is not hooked up to the transmission, is it the same as being in neutral? I tried searching on google for something about a differential not hooked up being the same as neutral. In neutral the transmission is not in gear, but since the drive shaft would be hooked up still it would have some sort of resistance on the differential, and I don't know if that would play a part in the test of moving the half shafts or not.
So I don't get further yelled at, here is a question I have, the site http://members.aol.com/solomiata/MiataVLSD.html
says you can identify a torsen by moving both half shafts in the same direction at once if the tranny is in neutral, and says if it can't be done it is a Type I. My question is, if the differential is not hooked up to the transmission, is it the same as being in neutral? I tried searching on google for something about a differential not hooked up being the same as neutral. In neutral the transmission is not in gear, but since the drive shaft would be hooked up still it would have some sort of resistance on the differential, and I don't know if that would play a part in the test of moving the half shafts or not.
Last edited by hackerchris; 04-18-2008 at 10:25 AM.
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04-18-2008, 10:41 AM
#34
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So I will post the exact links of what I found next time before I ask ANYTHING.
So I don't get further yelled at, here is a question I have, the site http://members.aol.com/solomiata/MiataVLSD.html
says you can identify a torsen by moving both half shafts in the same direction at once if the tranny is in neutral, and says if it can't be done it is a Type I. My question is, if the differential is not hooked up to the transmission, is it the same as being in neutral? I tried searching on google for something about a differential not hooked up being the same as neutral. In neutral the transmission is not in gear, but since the drive shaft would be hooked up still it would have some sort of resistance on the differential, and I don't know if that would play a part in the test of moving the half shafts or not.
So I don't get further yelled at, here is a question I have, the site http://members.aol.com/solomiata/MiataVLSD.html
says you can identify a torsen by moving both half shafts in the same direction at once if the tranny is in neutral, and says if it can't be done it is a Type I. My question is, if the differential is not hooked up to the transmission, is it the same as being in neutral? I tried searching on google for something about a differential not hooked up being the same as neutral. In neutral the transmission is not in gear, but since the drive shaft would be hooked up still it would have some sort of resistance on the differential, and I don't know if that would play a part in the test of moving the half shafts or not.
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04-18-2008, 11:39 PM
#36
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Alright, thank you very much. I bought an 84 GSL LSD today with 68k miles on it. I am excited to get it. My service manual looks pretty intimidating for setting the backlash. I know that a lot of you have installed your own LSD before, but I have not. The only work I have done with my differential before is replace an axel seal that went into it from the passenger side, and change the oil to Redline, but anyone can do that. So, my question is, with setting the backlash, is it pretty straight forward with using the micrometer and just playing around with measurements till it lines up? Any special technique that helps save time that any of you have used?
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04-18-2008, 11:44 PM
#37
There's a write up on miata.net that expains it VERY WELL. It's very well written. A very knowledgeable person wrote it. I would suggest that when setting it up, bring all tollerances down to the minimum factory spec. For example, if backlash is .0039 to .0057, set it for .0039. When I do mine, is will probably be a little tigher than factory spec as it makes the unit stronger and less likely to fail from high torque loads. However, too tight causes wear and can kill bearings. If you were building a car you trailered to the 1/4 mile, you would shim it very tight.
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04-18-2008, 11:50 PM
#38
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Well, if I plan on running 350 rwhp, should I rebuild it first? Not sure what my backlash should be for the perfect balance between having it be able to handle a high torque load, and maximize life of the clutch disks and bearings.
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04-19-2008, 12:11 AM
#39
Remember when I suggest to get a book on differentials? 
I can tell you most of the answers. I'm not though. You gotta do the learning on your own. I can tell you my educated opinion on how you should set it up, but better you would form your own opinion first, then ask others for theirs to compare. You're getting better, but I can't tell you if you stock LSD needs a rebuild. Test it. How? Find out. You gotta learn all this **** on diffs anyway if you wanna do it yourself.
I can tell you most of the answers. I'm not though. You gotta do the learning on your own. I can tell you my educated opinion on how you should set it up, but better you would form your own opinion first, then ask others for theirs to compare. You're getting better, but I can't tell you if you stock LSD needs a rebuild. Test it. How? Find out. You gotta learn all this **** on diffs anyway if you wanna do it yourself.
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04-19-2008, 12:19 AM
#40
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Ok, say I put it in how it is now. If it starts slipping sometime, as long as I take the differential out right away, I am not going to harm the pinion and ring and the differential housing in anyways, right?
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