General Miata Chat A place to talk about anything Miata

Alternator suddenly red hot?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 07-20-2019, 07:31 PM
  #81  
Senior Member
 
SpartanSV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Greeley, CO
Posts: 1,224
Total Cats: 163
Default

Originally Posted by sixshooter
As a reply to you and DKM:
Not resistance across the coil, unfortunately. That's the 30 to 87 resistance while contacted.

And I didn't grab the new alternator to check if warm.
That's bananas.

Got a link to the relays you're using? Did you use your clamp meter to take a current measurement before the relay?
SpartanSV is offline  
Old 07-20-2019, 07:35 PM
  #82  
Moderator
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,652
Total Cats: 3,011
Default

Originally Posted by SpartanSV
That's bananas.

Got a link to the relays you're using? Did you use your clamp meter to take a current measurement before the relay?
Yes, and it was very similar to the reading closer to the fan, to my recollection. There was some slight fluctuation while running so it would be tough to be exact, but I can try it out tomorrow.

Here's the relays:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01IX7NV0C/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_awdo_t1_12ZiDbTNTNRE5 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01IX7NV0C/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_awdo_t1_12ZiDbTNTNRE5
sixshooter is offline  
Old 07-20-2019, 08:11 PM
  #83  
Senior Member
 
SpartanSV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Greeley, CO
Posts: 1,224
Total Cats: 163
Default

If the current measurement before and after the relay is similar then you can't have 151 ohms across the contacts.

I just measured a very similar relay at 0.2 Ohms across the contacts.
SpartanSV is offline  
Old 07-20-2019, 09:26 PM
  #84  
Moderator
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,652
Total Cats: 3,011
Default

I'll try a different multimeter tomorrow.
sixshooter is offline  
Old 07-20-2019, 09:46 PM
  #85  
Retired Mech Design Engr
iTrader: (3)
 
DNMakinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seneca, SC
Posts: 5,009
Total Cats: 857
Default

You my just not be using the meter properly. It sounds as if you are trying to read ohms across the contacts while the fan is on. That won't work. It is confusing the Multimeter.

The correct thing is to measure the amps, and then also measure the voltage drop across the contacts. Then you use Ohm's law to the resistance: Ohms = Voltage / Amperes

DNM
DNMakinson is offline  
Old 07-20-2019, 10:34 PM
  #86  
Moderator
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,652
Total Cats: 3,011
Default

Originally Posted by DNMakinson
You my just not be using the meter properly. It sounds as if you are trying to read ohms across the contacts while the fan is on. That won't work. It is confusing the Multimeter.

The correct thing is to measure the amps, and then also measure the voltage drop across the contacts. Then you use Ohm's law to the resistance: Ohms = Voltage / Amperes

DNM
You're right, I was touching 30 + 87 while the fan was engaged. I didn't realize that would make the difference to anything. For some reason I didn't think the meter was supposed to be bothered by things like that.

I just realized it was DNM and I put DKM earlier. My apologies. I certainly knew there was a K in it but it was in the middle of your last name.
sixshooter is offline  
Old 07-20-2019, 11:46 PM
  #87  
Tweaking Enginerd
iTrader: (2)
 
Ted75zcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 1,773
Total Cats: 355
Default

DMMs use a very small current source to create a voltage across the resisance being measured. If there is already a voltage there, it will muck the reading. I am glad to hear this is the reason for the reading you reported.
Ted75zcar is offline  
Old 07-21-2019, 12:12 AM
  #88  
Retired Mech Design Engr
iTrader: (3)
 
DNMakinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seneca, SC
Posts: 5,009
Total Cats: 857
Default

Originally Posted by sixshooter
You're right, I was touching 30 + 87 while the fan was engaged. I didn't realize that would make the difference to anything. For some reason I didn't think the meter was supposed to be bothered by things like that.

I just realized it was DNM and I put DKM earlier. My apologies. I certainly knew there was a K in it but it was in the middle of your last name.
No worries. We’re just trying to get you to the Gap.
DNMakinson is offline  
Old 07-21-2019, 06:37 AM
  #89  
Moderator
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,652
Total Cats: 3,011
Default

Originally Posted by Ted75zcar
DMMs use a very small current source to create a voltage across the resisance being measured. If there is already a voltage there, it will muck the reading. I am glad to hear this is the reason for the reading you reported.
Aha! I'll measure it with the contacts closed and the high current leads removed.

This is how the new wiring was done without a fuse holder. Thankfully it runs much cooler than the store bought holder.
Attached Thumbnails Alternator suddenly red hot?-20190720_174122.jpg   Alternator suddenly red hot?-20190720_180008.jpg  
sixshooter is offline  
Old 07-21-2019, 02:20 PM
  #90  
Moderator
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,652
Total Cats: 3,011
Default

Originally Posted by DNMakinson
You my just not be using the meter properly. It sounds as if you are trying to read ohms across the contacts while the fan is on. That won't work. It is confusing the Multimeter.
Why are you the only one who knew this, lol?

Bench testing the relay in the closed position with no high current leads attached yields an ohm reading of 0.1 to 0.0 on the same meter.

I'll try doing the voltage drop and amperage measurement method you described in a bit.
sixshooter is offline  
Old 07-21-2019, 02:52 PM
  #91  
Moderator
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,652
Total Cats: 3,011
Default

25.1 amps inline

High current poles on relay during operation:
14.00v
14.02v

What does it all mean?
sixshooter is offline  
Old 07-21-2019, 03:00 PM
  #92  
Tweaking Enginerd
iTrader: (2)
 
Ted75zcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 1,773
Total Cats: 355
Default

Relay is fine

Edit: now measure voltage from relay output to fan input.

3 measurements
Relay out to chassis
Fan in the chassis
Relay out to fan in (mV scale)

All with fan running and associated current measurements
Ted75zcar is offline  
Old 07-21-2019, 04:27 PM
  #93  
Moderator
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,652
Total Cats: 3,011
Default

Originally Posted by Ted75zcar
Relay is fine

Edit: now measure voltage from relay output to fan input.

3 measurements
Relay out to chassis 13.95
Fan in the chassis 13.85
Relay out to fan in (mV scale) 115.0mV

All with fan running and associated current measurements
Relay out to chassis 13.95
Fan in the chassis 13.85
Relay out to fan in (mV scale) 115.0mV
At 25.8 amps measured at fan input.
sixshooter is offline  
Old 07-21-2019, 04:29 PM
  #94  
Tweaking Enginerd
iTrader: (2)
 
Ted75zcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 1,773
Total Cats: 355
Default

Length of wire between relay and fan?
Ted75zcar is offline  
Old 07-21-2019, 05:13 PM
  #95  
Moderator
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,652
Total Cats: 3,011
Default

Originally Posted by Ted75zcar
Length of wire between relay and fan?
18-24 inches I'm guessing. I'm on a run for parts right now.
sixshooter is offline  
Old 07-21-2019, 05:15 PM
  #96  
Tweaking Enginerd
iTrader: (2)
 
Ted75zcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 1,773
Total Cats: 355
Default

Pick up a 40A fuse while you are at it. The relay/wire situatuon sounds fine.

Do you have a thermocouple or an IR temp gauge?
Ted75zcar is offline  
Old 07-21-2019, 05:35 PM
  #97  
Moderator
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,652
Total Cats: 3,011
Default

Originally Posted by Ted75zcar
Pick up a 40A fuse while you are at it. The relay/wire situatuon sounds fine.

Do you have a thermocouple or an IR temp gauge?
I have both. Thermocouple with multimeter was how I measured temperature earlier in thread.
sixshooter is offline  
Old 07-21-2019, 05:44 PM
  #98  
Tweaking Enginerd
iTrader: (2)
 
Ted75zcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 1,773
Total Cats: 355
Default

Great. Take temperatures of the components in question after heat soak, as well as other (preferably like materials/colors) surfaces in close proximity to the areas of interest.
Ted75zcar is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Joker
Engine Performance
5
09-16-2018 06:42 PM
sixshooter
MEGAsquirt
11
09-04-2018 09:03 AM
sixshooter
MEGAsquirt
15
08-25-2015 08:35 AM
mtncrvr
General Miata Chat
2
08-25-2008 10:03 PM
rollin904
General Miata Chat
3
01-14-2008 11:52 AM



Quick Reply: Alternator suddenly red hot?



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:52 PM.