Begi coolant reroute...entirely too cold. - Page 5 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


General Miata Chat A place to talk about anything Miata

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-03-2009, 05:05 PM   #81
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tigard, Oregon
Posts: 3,908
Total Cats: 0
Default

Watching this thread anxiously.

I've got the bell system that comes with the turbo kit that started this thread. Takes forever to warm up when it's cold out. Hoping there is a nice clean solution, a mechanical moron like me can accomplish, before I give up and swap the line to the rad outlet.
cueball1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 12:27 PM   #82
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,915
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brgracer View Post
So here is my proposed execution of your idea of basically a temp diverting switch for the heater return.
Well, it's more Shaik's idea than mine, but yes, that appears to be consistent with the general concept and, if the oil thermostat works the way we expect, should be the "most optimal" configuration.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 01:06 PM   #83
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

Hey I was the one that told Shaikh what to do
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 01:30 PM   #84
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tigard, Oregon
Posts: 3,908
Total Cats: 0
Default

Ok. BEGI reroute for dummies here. I've got the too cold BEGI system in my dd car. It takes forever to warm up now that it's winter. BEGI is sending me another T to move the heater return to the rad outlet. The idea proposed here is a temp sensing diverter valve could be put into the system to run cold return water to the outlet, hot return water to the inlet.

I'd love to do this! It's simple and wouldn't involve much mechanical work like freeze plugs, moving thermostats, etc. Would the oil diverters mentioned earlier work in this sort of application?

Can you tell I'm enjoy being spoon fed and simple solutions?!?
cueball1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 01:41 PM   #85
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,865
Total Cats: 1,790
Default

yeah Tom's idea of the oil cooler thermostat is full of win.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 03:30 PM   #86
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
yeah Tom's idea of the oil cooler thermostat is full of win.
I agree with this. If Texas weren't tropical, I'd do this **** too.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 03:46 PM   #87
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tigard, Oregon
Posts: 3,908
Total Cats: 0
Default

So with the oil cooler thermostat as a diversion valve, I wouldn't be looking to move the engine thermostat to the rear, no plugs, no drilling holes for flow, etc. I'd simply use the existing standard BEGI reroute but add a diverter valve/oil cooler therm to the heater return line.

Would there be a significant reason to go farther than this and do the rear thermostat/ blocked front type mods or is this likely more than good enough if I'm not running at WOT for hours on end?

Then there is the question of brand. Permacool is around $40. Mocal is $100. Worth the extra $60? Try cheap to see if it works and replace it later with quality if it doesn't hold up?

Last edited by cueball1; 01-09-2009 at 04:06 PM.
cueball1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 04:52 PM   #88
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,915
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Hey I was the one that told Shaikh what to do
Ok, fine.

Shaikh's oil thermostat idea, which he got from Jason, which he received in the form of a vision from a talking Space Coyote standing atop an Aztec pyramid after consuming a bowl of chili made from the Merciless Peppers of Quetzlzacatenango (grown deep in the jungle primeval by the inmates of a Guatemalan insane asylum), is pretty damn optimal.

Are we all happy?
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 04:59 PM   #89
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,915
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cueball1 View Post
BEGI is sending me another T to move the heater return to the rad outlet.
Said configuration being functionally identical to just leaving the heater return connected to the mixing manifold in the first place.

Quote:
The idea proposed here is a temp sensing diverter valve could be put into the system to run cold return water to the outlet, hot return water to the inlet.
Yes.

Quote:
Would the oil diverters mentioned earlier work in this sort of application?
It is unknown whether they retain their diversion characteristic when dealing with an extremely low viscosity fluid (water), however apart from that uncertainty, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cueball1 View Post
So with the oil cooler thermostat as a diversion valve, I wouldn't be looking to move the engine thermostat to the rear, no plugs, no drilling holes for flow, etc. I'd simply use the existing standard BEGI reroute but add a diverter valve/oil cooler therm to the heater return line.
Ideally, the thermostat should still be relocated to the back of the head. The purpose in doing this is to increase the volume of water flowing all the way through the engine when it is at operating temperature. With the thermostat in the front, it diverts a lot of coolant away from the engine, which is the primary reason that the back of the engine tends to run hot in the Miata environment.

Quote:
Would there be a significant reason to go farther than this and do the rear thermostat/ blocked front type mods or is this likely more than good enough if I'm not running at WOT for hours on end?
See above.

Quote:
Permacool is around $40. Mocal is $100. Worth the extra $60? Try cheap to see if it works and replace it later with quality if it doesn't hold up?
Don't you love being a pioneer? The rest of us will learn from your experiance.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 05:02 PM   #90
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tigard, Oregon
Posts: 3,908
Total Cats: 0
Default

As soon as BEGI get's me the T fitting I'm gonna try it. I'm going Permacool and cheaping out at 1st. We'll see if it's the cat's meow as it seems it should be. 20gpm flow through seem like enough?
cueball1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2009, 04:30 AM   #91
Junior Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Inland Empire So-Cal
Posts: 274
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Well, they didn't actually return at the thermostat housing, they just passed by it on the way to the mixing manifold. In the first picture above (which I think is the Bell piece) he's clearly installed a brass tee fitting as a return. The water coming from the turbo and from the oil cooler can both return anywhere on this inlet pipe.
Hey Joe,

thanks for answering my questions... now I have a few more, and my searching isn't conclusive....

I'm not sure if I am getting this, I am not running boost yet, and want to have the coolant reroute and the swap running smoothly before turbo....

on the stock coolant configuration, the thermostat housing on the front, there is a large outlet that connects to the upper radiator hose, and smaller outlet which connects via rubber tube, that runs to the intake manifold, and to the oil filter housing and then to the back of the engine (now is the back of the engine the mixing manifold?)

if i do a coolant reroute, and move the t-stat housing using a jr spacer to the rear, should i have the little outlet tube connect to the same spot in the rear, is it ok, if i don't have coolant running through the intake manifold or the oil filter housing?

and i'm down here in sunny california, where it rarely ever gets below 60,

so, if this seems crazy please let me know..
1. use freeze plug to block original t-stat outlet in the front.
2. plug the intake manifold and oil filter housing inlet outlets,
3. use the jr spacer to run to the heater inlet,pre thermostat
4. connect heater outlet to the smaller inlet on the water pump
5. connect the large outlet (using the stock t-stat housing on the back of the engine) to the upper radiator hose...
6. connect little outlet from tstat housing to the rear of the motor

i understand that this will not be optimal, as i will still be mixing warm coolant from the heater outlet just before it goes into the engine,

but it should overall be an improvement than the stock set up right?
and it will allow decent warmup time no?
james399 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 01:59 PM   #92
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tigard, Oregon
Posts: 3,908
Total Cats: 0
Default

Got my $42 Perma-cool oil thermostat from Summit today - jeez, I just ordered in Monday! Waiting on the new connector pipe for the rad outlet from BEGI. I'll let everyone know what happens when it's all hooked up.

If that helps I'll be thinking about doing the rear thermostat mod next.
cueball1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2009, 04:02 PM   #93
Junior Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Inland Empire So-Cal
Posts: 274
Total Cats: 0
Default

ok, i did a lot more reading, and how bout this...

- i wanna plug the front with a freeze plug

- the inlet and outlet on the intake manifold is to heat air in case the condensation in the air freezes as it enters the intake... so being that i'm in cali, i don't have to worry about that and can leave that plugged.

- i was looking at the mazda protege 323 turbo setup, and figured, i should mimic that...
that being said:
the outlet at the rear of the engine that runs to the oil cooler - intake manifold - thermostat cover on the front of the engine on the turbo engine has a double outlet instead of a single outlet,
1 goes to the heater core and the other outlet goes to oil ->intake -> thermostat cover...

so... do you guys think it will be a good idea to get a splitter of some kind, and route one line to the oil cooler and the other line to the heater, and plumb them both in to the upper radiator somewhere after the t-stat? this would allow continual cycling of water, without having to drill or tap the head and or use a spacer... and it will allow for continued use of the heater as well...

whatdya guys think?

or, if you want to eliminate the heater altogether, plug the heater core, and just plum the oil cooler bck into the upper radiator hose after the tstat, and that will continue cycling of water...

i live in so-cal, so the coldest it gets is about 50 degrees.

-j
james399 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 02:22 AM   #94
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,915
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by james399 View Post
- i wanna plug the front with a freeze plug
Win.


Quote:
- i was looking at the mazda protege 323 turbo setup, and figured, i should mimic that...
that being said:
the outlet at the rear of the engine that runs to the oil cooler - intake manifold - thermostat cover on the front of the engine on the turbo engine has a double outlet instead of a single outlet,
1 goes to the heater core and the other outlet goes to oil ->intake -> thermostat cover...
Win.


Quote:
and plumb them both in to the upper radiator somewhere after the t-stat?
Lose.

Returning the exhaust product of the heater core and the oil cooler to the upper radiator hose will cause all of that water to flow through the radiator even when the thermostat is closed. This will cause delayed warmup and possible over-cooling.

In keeping with your theme of replicating the 323GTX design, these two feeds should be returned to the lower radiator hose. The heater can be effectively placed into this configuration by leaving its outlet exactly as stock, with the rigid metal pipe feeding into the mixing manifold. The oil cooler can be returned to the upright-facing nipple on the mixing manifold to which the hose coming from the thermostat housing is normally attached.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 06:50 AM   #95
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
NA6C-Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Birmingham Alabama
Posts: 8,038
Total Cats: 43
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cueball1 View Post
Got my $42 Perma-cool oil thermostat from Summit today - jeez, I just ordered in Monday! Waiting on the new connector pipe for the rad outlet from BEGI. I'll let everyone know what happens when it's all hooked up.

If that helps I'll be thinking about doing the rear thermostat mod next.
Dont you love their speedy shipping. Same with Jegs.
NA6C-Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 09:55 AM   #96
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,865
Total Cats: 1,790
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post

Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 10:50 AM   #97
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,797
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I love your avatar. I gotta get some of those made for work.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2009, 11:42 AM   #98
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

If you already have the coolant reroute, what is the point in using a diverter on the outlet of the heater (such that it dumps into the radiator outlet when cold, radiator inlet when warm)? Why not just progressively block the heater outlet the warmer it gets?

(Assuming you have a reroute...) If you dump the heater outlet into the radiator inlet when warm, what you are doing is effectively letting coolant out both ends of the head, instead of just the rear, which is more optimal. It's more optimal because the rear has the hottest coolant.
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 01:31 PM   #99
Newb
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 8
Total Cats: 0
Default

It's amusing as I was just talking with Stephanie the other day about this and was thinking of something alone similar lines to what has been mentioned here. She's actually the one who sent me this link as well...

Brgracer's diagram: was exactly what I was thinking of doing. Like him before me I also wonder how the 5/10% pass-through when using coolant vs oil would pan out. I was curious if anyone ever came up with a definitive answer? I was browsing through the thread but didn't see anyone actually answer it. (I apologize in advance if I simply overlooked it.)

I'd much rather use a thermostat to adjust the flow automatically, but I figure worse case scenario is I can always just use a T diverter valve and manually switch it back and forth between cold/hot weather modes...
Obsidian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 04:26 PM   #100
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tigard, Oregon
Posts: 3,908
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post

Brgracer's diagram: I also wonder how the 5/10% pass-through when using coolant vs oil would pan out. I was curious if anyone ever came up with a definitive answer? I was browsing through the thread but didn't see anyone actually answer it. ...

You didn't see it because we don't know yet! I'm waiting for my lower radiator hose T from BEGI to give it a try. I've got the oil therm sitting here ready to go. I would guess the viscosity difference shouldn't make a great deal of difference in flow through but that's just a wild guess on my part. Smarter people here than me have wondered about that also (joe perez for example). Until it's hooked up and working (or not) we won't really know.
cueball1 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 58 Yesterday 10:04 PM
MSPNPPro-MM0105: Coolant Temperature Output slomiata MEGAsquirt 5 10-07-2015 02:11 PM
Expected intake temps on the track? tazswing Race Prep 20 10-03-2015 12:04 PM
Bad head gasket or ? shooterschmidty Engine Performance 8 09-30-2015 11:28 PM


Tags
reroute

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:39 AM.