bleeding brakes with ABS
10-18-2013, 03:11 PM
#63
Does bleeding ABS brakes only suck with Miatas or all cars in general?
I'm having a bitch of a time bleeding my Honda Accord. I need to constantly pump my brakes, otherwise it slowly goes to the floor during braking. Not sure if my brake master cylinder is fuxored though.
I'm having a bitch of a time bleeding my Honda Accord. I need to constantly pump my brakes, otherwise it slowly goes to the floor during braking. Not sure if my brake master cylinder is fuxored though.
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11-18-2013, 06:19 PM
#65
Bleeding ABS sucks. On the first (and last) ABS car I had the only "official" way to bleed the system was to take it to the dealer and pray they had a 20 year old Rotunda Diagnostic tool, or could find a 15 year old Raybestos ABS bleeder. So glad I sold that SHO POS.
Over on m.net this procedure was posted, which is vaguely echoed here.
Bleeding ABS brakes - MX-5 Miata Forum
I have never tested this method, and someone in this thread said it does *not* work for the NB, at least when they attempted it. The same thread also references a method for the NB.
The NC can be bled using a tool at the dealer, which I can't imagine would cost that much, but then again, I got charged an hour labor for a tech to come out and change the speedo calibration on a customer's lifted Dodge. It took him 5 minutes, and he spent 10 BS-ing with his buddies first. **** the stealer.
Over on m.net this procedure was posted, which is vaguely echoed here.
Bleeding ABS brakes - MX-5 Miata Forum
Raise the car up on four jackstands and remove the wheels. Bleed in the standard order (from furthest to closest to the MC ABS UNIT), but after each several pumps, start the car, put it in gear and then brake lightly. The ABS pump will cycle, desperately trying to prevent the rears from locking up, but also moving the old fluid through the system.
Doing some more digging I found this post http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/in...?topic=26846.0 which indicates jumping GND and TBS can activate ABS when the key is on and the brake pedal is pressed. It appears this was written with regard to a NB. Can anyone confirm that this works with an NA as well. I would hate to find out the hard way that this shouldn't be done on an NA.
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11-18-2013, 07:06 PM
#66
Ground to TBS you say? That would mean that there is some wire on the ABS harness that just needs to be grounded (at least for the 01+ abs).
Edit.
Who wants to bet that jumping either pin V or W to ground will cycle the abs.
Edit.
Who wants to bet that jumping either pin V or W to ground will cycle the abs.
Last edited by Leafy; 11-19-2013 at 08:54 AM.
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11-20-2013, 07:22 AM
#69
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Bleeding ABS sucks. On the first (and last) ABS car I had the only "official" way to bleed the system was to take it to the dealer and pray they had a 20 year old Rotunda Diagnostic tool, or could find a 15 year old Raybestos ABS bleeder. So glad I sold that SHO POS.
Over on m.net this procedure was posted, which is vaguely echoed here.
Bleeding ABS brakes - MX-5 Miata Forum
I have never tested this method, and someone in this thread said it does *not* work for the NB, at least when they attempted it. The same thread also references a method for the NB.
The NC can be bled using a tool at the dealer, which I can't imagine would cost that much, but then again, I got charged an hour labor for a tech to come out and change the speedo calibration on a customer's lifted Dodge. It took him 5 minutes, and he spent 10 BS-ing with his buddies first. **** the stealer.
Over on m.net this procedure was posted, which is vaguely echoed here.
Bleeding ABS brakes - MX-5 Miata Forum
I have never tested this method, and someone in this thread said it does *not* work for the NB, at least when they attempted it. The same thread also references a method for the NB.
The NC can be bled using a tool at the dealer, which I can't imagine would cost that much, but then again, I got charged an hour labor for a tech to come out and change the speedo calibration on a customer's lifted Dodge. It took him 5 minutes, and he spent 10 BS-ing with his buddies first. **** the stealer.
I will tell you that using a Motive Power Bleeder made the process "much more easier"
All the best
Eric
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11-20-2013, 08:16 PM
#71
Down the rabbit hole.... Alright. From the broken mazdaspeed forums link here is the info. Apparently TBS is on the DLC connector, not the ABS computer.
Bleeding the Miata's ABS brakes
So it looks like pin Z on the ABS computer? It's the only other White/Light Blue wire, even though the colors are reversed on your diagram to L/W.
Edit: Leafy, is that for the 94 in your sig? I think I read that you can't short a pin to get the NA computer into the mode. 5 MPH is ~ 230 RPM at the hub, depending on tire size.
This * infinity. A vacuum bleeder will make your life heaven, even a manual one. Make sure you can regulate how much vacuum is pulled, as the stronger ones will draw air through the threads on the bleeder and you'll be thinking "Why are there so many air bubbles in this brake line?" until you suck the master dry. Ask me how I know. >.<
Edit: Just realized that the Motive is a pressure bleeder that attaches to the MC. Those are supposed to be even better (never got to use one myself), but don't work for all makes/models without getting fitment kits.
Bleeding the Miata's ABS brakes
There is another option, which I didn't find on the internet but in the tech manual:
Jumper the GND and TBS pins in the DLC. Step on the brake. Key on. This puts the ABS into diagnostic mode (without a special tool), and the pump cycles once on each channel. Repeat that a couple of times, as you bleed each caliper, for best results.
I had to do it a few times to get all the air out after installing a dry ABS block, but it did work. If you're just doing a normal bleed, you should feel a difference pretty quickly.
The only other thing I'd mention is that, on our cars, the line from the MC goes to the ABS block and, from there, back to the driver's side caliper. This makes it a longer line, and "farther away" from the MC than the passenger's side caliper. I'd been bleeding my brakes the traditional way (LR, RR, RF, LF) since I got the car, but I tried reversing the order for the fronts and can't say I notice a difference.
Hopefully, this post will help someone who heads to Google before they head to Mitchell's. Oh, and for anybody thinking, "I've heard of GND but what's TBS???"
This is a 99-00 DLC pinout, but the positions of GND and TBS are the same on my car.
Jumper the GND and TBS pins in the DLC. Step on the brake. Key on. This puts the ABS into diagnostic mode (without a special tool), and the pump cycles once on each channel. Repeat that a couple of times, as you bleed each caliper, for best results.
I had to do it a few times to get all the air out after installing a dry ABS block, but it did work. If you're just doing a normal bleed, you should feel a difference pretty quickly.
The only other thing I'd mention is that, on our cars, the line from the MC goes to the ABS block and, from there, back to the driver's side caliper. This makes it a longer line, and "farther away" from the MC than the passenger's side caliper. I'd been bleeding my brakes the traditional way (LR, RR, RF, LF) since I got the car, but I tried reversing the order for the fronts and can't say I notice a difference.
Hopefully, this post will help someone who heads to Google before they head to Mitchell's. Oh, and for anybody thinking, "I've heard of GND but what's TBS???"
This is a 99-00 DLC pinout, but the positions of GND and TBS are the same on my car.
Edit: Leafy, is that for the 94 in your sig? I think I read that you can't short a pin to get the NA computer into the mode. 5 MPH is ~ 230 RPM at the hub, depending on tire size.
I will tell you that using a Motive Power Bleeder made the process "much more easier"
Edit: Just realized that the Motive is a pressure bleeder that attaches to the MC. Those are supposed to be even better (never got to use one myself), but don't work for all makes/models without getting fitment kits.
Last edited by TheScaryOne; 11-20-2013 at 10:49 PM.
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11-21-2013, 06:21 AM
#72
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Yea. Usually what I do is start the car, get out and walk over to the passenger side front(so I can hear the pump over the engine) and spin the wheel, then get back in the car, put it in 3rd gear and let the clutch out, gently apply the brake and the throttle until you feel the ABS pump go active. You will only have about 30 seconds from the time you start the rear wheels spinning to do this. The ABS computer will see the rear wheels spinning and not the fronts and assume there is a problem with the front wheel speed sensors and "throw a code" which means you've got to start over.
IMHO still easier than raising the car, bleeding, lowering the car, driving the car, activating ABS, going home, raising the car, bleeding....etc etc etc.
When I did my ABS install I made sure to go through the extra trouble to hook up the ABS light on the dash. It makes this process somewhat easier. I didn't, however run the wires to the diagnostic connector , so on my car this is really the only way to bleed the ABS brick.
And yes. The Motive is a power bleeder. I think it was $70 or $80 and well worth it for me. But I am bleeding my brakes, most of the time alone, 10-11 times a year and doing a full flush once a year...so I use it all the time.
IMHO still easier than raising the car, bleeding, lowering the car, driving the car, activating ABS, going home, raising the car, bleeding....etc etc etc.
When I did my ABS install I made sure to go through the extra trouble to hook up the ABS light on the dash. It makes this process somewhat easier. I didn't, however run the wires to the diagnostic connector , so on my car this is really the only way to bleed the ABS brick.
And yes. The Motive is a power bleeder. I think it was $70 or $80 and well worth it for me. But I am bleeding my brakes, most of the time alone, 10-11 times a year and doing a full flush once a year...so I use it all the time.
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11-21-2013, 12:38 PM
#73
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Another is internal leakage as you have four different seals in there on the dual circuit MC's - which all cars now have. Only one seal (closest to driver) stops fluid from leaking out. Other seals can wear and not hold pressure - so pedal gets soft but nothing leaks out of the MC itself.
If it does leak out of the MC, it is easy to miss as the carpet padding can soak up a LOT of brake fluid before it becomes visible.
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06-24-2018, 12:54 AM
#75
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I just wanted to add my thanks and confirmation that the TBS and GND trick really works. On my 2002 the TBS and GND were in the same spot as the 99-00 diagram a couple posts above this.
Find TBS and GND pins on your engine bay diagnostic connector, it's on the driver's side for LHD markets
Jam a jumper wire into TBS and GND
Key in ignition, ignition off
Foot on brake
Ignition on
Wait a few seconds - ABS pump will cycle three times.
I used this trick to solve a consistent soft pedal in my ABS / sport equipped 2002 with Wilwood front / Sport rear calipers. Caliper choice doesn't really matter, the ABS pump needs to be cycled to get the air into the lines and bled out. I bled the brakes (in the order Left rear, right rear, left front, right front) having my assistant turn the ignition on and pump the ABS while I was bleeding. I timed opening the bleed screw on the brake caliper with the ABS pump turning on after he turned the ignition on. I did this for every time I opened the bleed screw. I don't know if that step is necessary, but then we performed a normal bleed on all four calipers, then pumped the ABS a few more times, then did one last small bleed on all four calipers
I'm happy to report that my brake pedal is as happy as it's ever been
Find TBS and GND pins on your engine bay diagnostic connector, it's on the driver's side for LHD markets
Jam a jumper wire into TBS and GND
Key in ignition, ignition off
Foot on brake
Ignition on
Wait a few seconds - ABS pump will cycle three times.
I used this trick to solve a consistent soft pedal in my ABS / sport equipped 2002 with Wilwood front / Sport rear calipers. Caliper choice doesn't really matter, the ABS pump needs to be cycled to get the air into the lines and bled out. I bled the brakes (in the order Left rear, right rear, left front, right front) having my assistant turn the ignition on and pump the ABS while I was bleeding. I timed opening the bleed screw on the brake caliper with the ABS pump turning on after he turned the ignition on. I did this for every time I opened the bleed screw. I don't know if that step is necessary, but then we performed a normal bleed on all four calipers, then pumped the ABS a few more times, then did one last small bleed on all four calipers
I'm happy to report that my brake pedal is as happy as it's ever been
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