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Old 01-19-2007, 12:26 PM   #1
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Default Clutch Time Part II

I made a clutch inquiry here a month or two ago. When the clutch was slipping a little. Now it's slipping a lot, so it's go time.

My requirements are:
Holds whatever a stock 1.6 and Tdo4 can produce
Low pedal effort
Good street manners
Capable of being driven by a woman in traffic
"Easy" installation.

The clutch will be swapped in a shop, so I'll have access to a lift, tranny jack, air tools, and all the acuturements expected in a modern automotive repair facility. What I don't have is time, nor do I have any experience in a clutch job. So I need something straight forward with little/no engineering.

So after M2's and Sam's experiences with their spec clutches, I'm leaning towards clutchnet as recommended by several including WOT. So, since I'm a clutch newb, what do I need? What "color level" from clutchnet would work? What gaskets/seals? Is this the time to do new motor mounts? Should I use a lightened 1.8 flywheel, or retain my 1.6 flywheel?
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Old 01-19-2007, 01:10 PM   #2
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Someone on miata.net was selling the FM clutch/flywheel combo (I refuse to call it a happy meal) for $550. I'm not sure if that'll meet your requirements or not.

I think you'll have a tough time finding consensus as to brand. I have had zero problems with my spec, but after hearing of Sam's problem I'm a little leary when I start making bigger numbers.

Unless you are getting a good deal I wouldn't bother with a light flywheel. I just don't think that you get a big gain back on your investment like you would when you are N/A. If you do want go with steel instead of aluminium. My aluminium flywheel is noisey, but that's a 7-8lb unit.

I would use a 1.8 kit and flywheel over 1.6. NA I would say stick with the 1.6 flywheel, there are better options that are more streetable with the 1.8 flywheel.

If I were to do it over I would do the SPEC 1.8 Stage 2+, or just suck it up and go with the heavy ACT setup.
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Old 01-19-2007, 01:25 PM   #3
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The ACT Extreme seems like a good kit, but I can't live with one because of the heavy pedal (bad knee). The HD doesn't look like it would hold up to my power as FM only recommends it for their voodoo cars, and recommend the extreme for FMII power. I would also like take off and modulation to be smooth so the car could be driven in rush hour by the wifey, if she had to do so. I'd really like something stock-like, but with the ability to hold 2.5X stock power.

I'm not thinking of a fancy light flywheel, but just machining down an oem 1.8 flywheel to approximate 1.6 flywheel weight. Which would give me increased surface area without much/any penalty.

I'm scared of Spec. And they don't seem to stand behind their product in the event of failure. I don't have time or patience to do a clutch swap twice.
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Old 01-19-2007, 01:34 PM   #4
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I don't know if it actually does, but the MAX-5 clutch I have is rated at ~250 ft-lbs according to the records. I can attest to the fact that it feels much like the stock clutch, but maybe a little lower engagement. Frankly, you might never know that it was different than stock, except for its supposed holding power. Just a thought.
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Old 01-19-2007, 02:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
The ACT Extreme seems like a good kit, but I can't live with one because of the heavy pedal (bad knee). The HD doesn't look like it would hold up to my power as FM only recommends it for their voodoo cars, and recommend the extreme for FMII power. I would also like take off and modulation to be smooth so the car could be driven in rush hour by the wifey, if she had to do so. I'd really like something stock-like, but with the ability to hold 2.5X stock power.

I'm not thinking of a fancy light flywheel, but just machining down an oem 1.8 flywheel to approximate 1.6 flywheel weight. Which would give me increased surface area without much/any penalty.

I'm scared of Spec. And they don't seem to stand behind their product in the event of failure. I don't have time or patience to do a clutch swap twice.
I don't think lightening the flywheel is worth the effort, but that's just my opinion.

Check out www.mvpmotorsports.com. They have all the popular clutches and descriptions. I bought my gear through them and was very happy with the service. They have a little blurb about each clutch that might help you out. With your requirments you are going to have a tough time finding something that works, but I'm sure there is something out there for you.

I wonder if you could get around the heavy pedal with a different master/slave arrangement?

Jay
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Old 01-19-2007, 02:39 PM   #6
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I would have to agree with jay on this. Plus it adds just a little bit of load to the motor, which adds a little bit of momentum which makes street driving a little bit easier, just my opinion. I put a lighter flywheel in my camaro, and it made the clutch extremely picky, and is now more like an on/off switch. For the specs, if you really want the holding power, go with the stage 3, or if they have it for the miata, the 3+, that is where you are going to get the true power holding. I will be installing the act that I have in my room after I get back from visiting my parents in Colorado, so I can give you some feedback on that, but that won't be until mid next month. I have the one that is rated for 256lb-ft, whichever one that is.
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Old 01-20-2007, 12:04 PM   #7
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Come on fellas. What items do I need to order besides the disk and pressure plate?
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Old 01-20-2007, 12:43 PM   #8
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throw out bearing...pilot bearing right? The kits come with them...or whatever 2 bearing you need.

Unless you mean like parts...check this thread by Samnavy:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forums/sh...?t=5860&page=2

I just bought:
-ACT Clutch kit XT PP/ST disc
-Spark Plugs
-Rear main seal
-Front tranny seal
-Rear Tranny seal
-Upper shift boot
-Lower shift boot
-CAS O-ring
-Upper/Lower shifter bushings
-Brainiac's flywheel whenever he pulls it.
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Old 01-20-2007, 01:53 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy
Spec Stage II= $310shippied
Royal Purple 75x90- $10qt= $30
Front Tranny Seal= $3.95
Rear Tranny Seal= $12.95
Front Main Seal= $17.95
Small Shifter Boot= $24.95
Large Shifter Boot= $22.95
CAS O-ring (didn't do)= $4.95
Water Outlet Cap= $4.95
Total= $432.65+shipping from Rosenthal for parts= +/-$450
Except I'm probably going for a clutch kit recommended by clutchnet instead of the spec.
This everything? What bearings do I need? No bearings included by clutchnet.
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Old 01-20-2007, 02:03 PM   #10
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Pilot and release bears. An alignment tool might be handy as well.
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Old 01-22-2007, 08:52 PM   #11
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Got a very bad feeling from clutchnet and didnt want to go with Spec because of the trouble reported on this forum. Went with the 1.8 ACT HD package from FM. They say it will hold up to my longterm, longshot goal of 240rwtq.

Ouch it still hurts
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Old 01-22-2007, 09:00 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Got a very bad feeling from clutchnet and didnt want to go with Spec because of the trouble reported on this forum. Went with the 1.8 ACT HD package from FM. They say it will hold up to my longterm, longshot goal of 240rwtq.

Ouch it still hurts
Pretty much exactly the same experience here.
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Old 01-22-2007, 10:13 PM   #13
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Hopefully yours has the later material that doesn't squeak. Mine squeaks. I 'm hoping we can find another clutch manufacturer beside ACT or Spec that has a good streetable, quiet, durable for 240HP clutch.
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Old 01-22-2007, 10:17 PM   #14
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I've mentioned it a couple times, but somebody should check out the MAX-5 clutch. The later versions are very very nice.
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Old 01-22-2007, 11:06 PM   #15
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What gave you the bad feeling from clutchnet? I had a informative conversation with the guy there that helped me decide which disk to get. Shipped the same day I placed the order.
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Old 01-23-2007, 12:20 AM   #16
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Wish I had an informative employee, but it wasn't the case. Was communicating via email with Alex at clutchnet. I told him my desires, and he recommended a $195 pressure plate and $175 disk, but didn't give me either part #. I couldn't find any miata parts on their site that had corresponding prices. So I asked him what the part #s were and he emailed me back saying that I needed to pick out the parts I wanted out of their catalog. So I responded, explaining that I was ok with the price he quoted me, but had no idea how to proceed to order as he never gave me the part #s of the items he recommended. Alex never got back with me.

So I called FM, told them what I was after (holds power, low effort, easy to drive). Without hesitation, Mark recommended the ACT HD package. He said that it's been on Keith's car for 40k miles without a problem, and Keith's car makes 50-75 ft lbs more than my 1.6 ever will.

Might have cost me a little bit more to go with FM, but not more than $10 or $15 (clutchnet doesn't include bearings, FM does). But I got the service I needed with FM. Which is definitely worth a little extra.
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Old 01-23-2007, 12:31 AM   #17
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It will hold and feel good. I called them asking about mine as well (1.6 HD). And surely enough they were right to say anything under 12psi with my turbo will hold...that's right where mine is letting go.
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Old 01-23-2007, 12:37 AM   #18
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yeah, I don't blame you for going elsewhere.
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Old 01-23-2007, 12:41 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braineack View Post
It will hold and feel good. I called them asking about mine as well (1.6 HD). And surely enough they were right to say anything under 12psi with my turbo will hold...that's right where mine is letting go.
Yeah I was thinking of going with the 1.8 because I've read that yours slips. Mark recommended the 1.8 off the bat. Keith's car makes 300 lb ft of torque (dont remember if that was flywheel or rear wheel) so there's no way it won't hold up on my car.
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Old 01-23-2007, 12:45 AM   #20
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I acutally haven't gotten it to slip since that one day when NeoGenesis2004 was in the car. but still I want to eventually run 250rwhp so I might as well not risk it. plus i was already going to drop the tranny.
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