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Old 02-17-2010, 04:18 PM   #1
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Default Do I really need a mspnp?

Can I just slap some bigger injectors or a fuel pump to run 14lbs?
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Old 02-17-2010, 04:20 PM   #2
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Before I answer this, I must ask: Are you being serious, or is this a joke?
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Old 02-17-2010, 04:24 PM   #3
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Go for it.
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Old 02-17-2010, 04:25 PM   #4
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Um...no.

Well yes, you should get the MSPNP, but no on bigger injectors and 14psi. Stock ECU is utter crap for boosting. Some folks get close to that much boost with bandaids, but it's hard to decently tune, and easy to **** up.

13.9lbs might be okay though with big enough injectors.
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Old 02-17-2010, 04:33 PM   #5
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The only reason not to get a MSPNP is that many members here will assemble basically the same thing for cheaper with a DIY kit.

PM curly about the difference between bandaids and megasquirt as he spent a lot of time using bandaids before I built him his megasquirt. I think one of his last PMs to me was "I need help, my car is running great and I dont know what to do!"
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Old 02-17-2010, 04:34 PM   #6
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well what about 12lbs
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Old 02-17-2010, 04:38 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris824 View Post
well what about 12lbs
should be fine, I mean you'd only need 460cc injectors to support that, should idle great and run fine on stock ECU since THEY'RE TWICE AS BIG
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Old 02-17-2010, 04:39 PM   #8
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11.9lbs max
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Old 02-17-2010, 04:40 PM   #9
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I think you are missing the point. Honestly, you could get away with 14 psi on bandaids. The issue is, you are missing out on power, safety, and drivability that you would get if you just nutted up and bought a megasquirt. You could sell the bipes and the RRFPR and make back some of the investment.
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Old 02-17-2010, 04:49 PM   #10
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you can do it, it's your car, but in a short period of time you'd probably spend so much extra on wasted fuel you could have bought a megasquirt anyhow
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Old 02-17-2010, 04:54 PM   #11
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I think you just discovered how I will explain the megasquirt purchase to the wife....

"Honey, my car will be so much more efficient -- this'll pay for itself in 100 days!"

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you can do it, it's your car, but in a short period of time you'd probably spend so much extra on wasted fuel you could have bought a megasquirt anyhow
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Old 02-17-2010, 04:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris824 View Post
well what about 12lbs
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Old 02-17-2010, 06:04 PM   #13
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Sell your turbo kit before you do something stupid, please.
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Old 02-17-2010, 06:15 PM   #14
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I went the bandaids route with my last car before getting some real managment. Never again.

All it took was a few weeks of endlessly trying to get the thing dialed in and having weird knock issues and not being able to enjoy all the work I had put in to convince me to pay the 650 or so for decent management.

And dont forget that you have some straight performance gains beyond just the safety and useability too. Ditch the AFM, two step, and actual tune that makes sense, etc.

One issue with going with injectors much larger than stock with a stock ECU is that for one thing larger injectors often have different opening and closing characteristics. So you get more flow, but the injector also opens and closes slower. Proper management allows you to handle this. With a stock ECU you just end up with a crappy idle and bad gas mileage. Probably be OK at WOT, but not so much elsewhere.
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Old 02-17-2010, 08:02 PM   #15
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Just shut up and buy the mspnp LOL. Its the best thing since sliced bread. Easy to use, install, and tune. Plus should you want to go even bigger then the greedy kit in the future, your all set up with any thing you can throw at it.
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Old 02-17-2010, 08:17 PM   #16
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Alright, let's see if I can put all my thoughts about this thread on screen coherently.

First of all, as a former and long time bandaid user, I have plenty of experience. I had them for a good 3 years, which included 5 track days. I had a BEGI AFPR, olderguy o2 clamp, and bipes.

At 5-8 psi it was fine. Set it and more or less leave it, every once in a while the AFR's would change, and by futzing with it I'd occasionally get it back to where I want it, and occasionally it'd go back on its own for no apparent reason. I was fairly happy with it, and like I said had some decent track days on this setup.

Above that however, is where I started running into issues. Even with a supposedly infinately adjustable afpr, I'd either stumble like hell while transitioning into boost, or run uber rich towards redline. There was a fine line somewhere in there that I found once or twice, but only once I lowered my manual boost controller from 12-10.

After going to MS, I can say only one thing: wow. HP numbers are useless, as they only tell you your peak hp, and I can say without a doubt that the largest gain is everywhere else in the rpm range. Yes there was no doubt a nice jump in peak power, but everywhere else was more powerful as well. My boost was much more steady, my bov was much louder, my air/fuel ratios were rock solid, and as I said before: wow.

It also seems like you don't quite understand the hierarchy of megasquirts, let me help you there.

MSPNP: This is a plug and play megasquirt, which requires literally unplugging the stock ECU, and plugging in the MS, along with running a vacuum line from the MS to the intake manifold so the MS knows your boost. This is $700.

Braineack MS: He'll build you more or less the above for $425. Instead of plugging right into the car's harness, you'll have an adapter harness to go between the MS and the miata's harness.

DIY MS: This is one you build yourself for a grand total of $260ish. You must have soldering skills however. Add $50-100 to that and know the right people on the board here and they'll build it for you. This method is a little more "enter at your own risk" over a Braineack MS.

Just thought since you kept throwing the term "MSPNP" around that you might need some clarification.

Last edited by curly; 02-17-2010 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 02-17-2010, 08:26 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
DIY MS: This is one you build yourself for a grand total of $230ish. You must have soldering skills however. Add $50-100 to that and know the right people on the board here and they'll build it for you. This method is a little more "enter at your own risk" over a Braineack MS.
The last Megasquirt that I built came to roughly 290 after shipping for parts. But it included all sensors/tuning cables/etc for a plug in and tune install.

/misinformation
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Old 02-17-2010, 08:37 PM   #18
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Edited it to $260, which is what I paid for everything, but I bought one of the cheaper harness and AIT sensor options. That includes shipping, fan mod, and PWM IAC mod.

p.s. I had a big plan to edit my post and yours to make you look like an idiot, but apparently mods can't do everything, lulz.
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Old 02-17-2010, 08:43 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Edited it to $260, which is what I paid for everything, but I bought one of the cheaper harness and AIT sensor options. That includes shipping, fan mod, and PWM IAC mod.

p.s. I had a big plan to edit my post and yours to make you look like an idiot, but apparently mods can't do everything, lulz.
Hmmm, a plot against me eh? Don't forget, you live within easy driving distance.
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Old 02-17-2010, 08:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris824 View Post
Can I just slap some bigger injectors or a fuel pump to run 14lbs?

well what about 12lbs

What about 11? Do I hear 10? Is this a reverse auction?

This place has gone soft. WAAAAY to many reasonable and well thought out responses to a 1 sentence question.

How about this. Read the FAQ.

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t10821/#post513134
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