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Old 04-29-2015, 07:02 PM   #41
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I've got some E85 friendly EV14 based FIC 650's I'm considering selling, just got them back from being cleaned like last week. They are 763cc if you bump you base pressure up to 60psi.

Full disclosure: I'd just take the money and buy even bigger IDs
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Old 04-30-2015, 12:06 AM   #42
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if im used to my ev1 wont ev6 still be a significant improvement?

seems like a lot of money to have a slightly improved idle..

that said if theres something else i should know, by all means, fire away.
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Old 04-30-2015, 01:00 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlev View Post
if im used to my ev1 wont ev6 still be a significant improvement?

seems like a lot of money to have a slightly improved idle..

that said if theres something else i should know, by all means, fire away.
In my experience, the EV6 injector is fine into the 400-500cc territory and will have an acceptable idle (1000rpm or less and not pig rich). After that, 750cc+, the EV6 does not idle well unless you run them rich (under 13:1AFR) or above 1000RPM. I tuned a MSM with 1000cc DW injectors and the car would not hold a steady idle unless the RPM was above 1000 and the AFR was in the mid 12s. Keep in mind, this was after getting the dead times set correct. No amount of tuning or trickery can fix junk injectors.

Last edited by Lincoln Logs; 04-30-2015 at 02:06 AM.
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Old 04-30-2015, 01:52 AM   #44
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/\ Truth.

It's not "just" a better idle. You can get mediocre injectors, just don't try to get us to agree with your reasoning.

Some of us tried ALL of the options you're considering. Most of us run ID

PS: the older I get, the more I despise using mediocre parts, and the more satisfaction I get out of quality parts. I hate to be "that guy" with a lumpy/jumpy idle, or a bucky car, or hot restarts, or.........I dunno
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Old 04-30-2015, 03:29 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
/\ Truth.

It's not "just" a better idle. You can get mediocre injectors, just don't try to get us to agree with your reasoning.

Some of us tried ALL of the options you're considering. Most of us run ID

PS: the older I get, the more I despise using mediocre parts, and the more satisfaction I get out of quality parts. I hate to be "that guy" with a lumpy/jumpy idle, or a bucky car, or hot restarts, or.........I dunno
You can get a great idle with ev1 injectors... if they're low impedance and you're using something that drives them as peak-and-hold. Unfortunately the only computer on the market I know of that does that is the Hydra, and the delta between an MS3 and a Hydra is twice the cost of a set of ID1000s.

--Ian
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Old 04-30-2015, 11:18 AM   #46
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ID1000's aren't really that expensive. I have had great luck with them and that is why I have a set in my Miata now. We run ID's in most of our Subie setups and the customer's are happy. (ID's or Five0)
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Old 04-30-2015, 11:26 AM   #47
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I'm all for doing it once and doing it right, that's why I have the garret charger and stainless lines, instead of the shanghai. More just curious about the advantages, because everything I find online just talks about how much better the EV6 are than EV1, and I can't find much on the difference in the EV14--and all the tuning shops around here rave about the DW injectors.

I've got the money, but the extra $150 buys at least some hookersandblow.
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Old 04-30-2015, 11:30 AM   #48
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We had a discussion on this, can't find it. Google "ev6 vs ev14" and get to reading. It's a smaller, newer, more efficient design that opens/closes faster and more efficient, more stable at low pulse widths, and in the case of ID perfectly matched so all are within 1%. Car runs more consistent, smoother, etc etc and you still have the ability to run them big without sacrificing anything so you have more headroom.
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Old 04-30-2015, 12:44 PM   #49
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Good to know. I'm seeing a lot of other talk on THE INTERNET about DW failing and not being as good.

Looks like another recommendation out there is FIC - Fuel Injector Clinic. I see these bad boys, well in my budget, with plenty of headroom in size, and they are in fact EV14.

Any reason I should not pull the trigger on these right now? (in before "just get the 1000s instead).

775cc FIC Mazda Miata Fuel Injector Clinic Injector Set (High-Z)
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Old 04-30-2015, 12:54 PM   #50
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FIC ev14's should be fine
Many people report good things

I'm running ID 725 and just looked at my log of 4th gear and at 11psi on the dinky MSM ihi I'm at like 70-75% duty. Stock fuel system otherwise. (I think my pump might be hating life right now)
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Old 04-30-2015, 01:32 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Car runs more consistent, smoother, etc etc and you still have the ability to run them big without sacrificing anything so you have more headroom.
+1, ID1000s let you have your cake and eat it too. Bottom line it will save you time and a big headache

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlev View Post
Good to know. I'm seeing a lot of other talk on THE INTERNET about DW failing and not being as good.

Looks like another recommendation out there is FIC - Fuel Injector Clinic. I see these bad boys, well in my budget, with plenty of headroom in size, and they are in fact EV14.

Any reason I should not pull the trigger on these right now? (in before "just get the 1000s instead).
Headroom, if at any point you want more power you'll already be set...it will be the LAST set of injectors you'll likely need. If the FICs are in your budget, wait a a little longer and just get the IDs. Do it once, do it right and you won't have to think about it again.
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Old 04-30-2015, 05:45 PM   #52
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I calculate that I need ~630 for where I want to be. The 775 should give me enough headroom to get to over 500bhp on gas, or ~400 on e85. That's more than I will ever, ever need.

Looking forward to some e85 goodness, and ev14 awesomeness. Thanks for all the help guys.
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Old 05-01-2015, 08:37 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlev View Post
I calculate that I need ~630 for where I want to be. The 775 should give me enough headroom to get to over 500bhp on gas, or ~400 on e85. That's more than I will ever, ever need.

Looking forward to some e85 goodness, and ev14 awesomeness. Thanks for all the help guys.
IF you install a RR-FPR. (That being said, I don't know what the stock fuel pressure is on the atmospheric referenced miata setup to try and calculate new numbers.)
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Old 05-01-2015, 09:59 PM   #54
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Has anyone had sucsess in runing the gm flex fuel sensor? I have made all the mods to suport it but get a noisy sensor signal and the ms content keeps jumping up and down.

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Old 05-02-2015, 12:03 AM   #55
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I'm quite glad you posted that, as I haven't actually seen anyone post what there's is outputting. Hopefully someone replies with some insight and/or graphs of their own.
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Old 05-02-2015, 01:49 AM   #56
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My E85 sensor is chilling in my parts pile so I can't comment on this.

But search around I found a thread on ms forums with people having the same issue. In that thread there is this wiring mod to smooth the noisy signal (the thread has a broken link but I h4x)

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Old 05-02-2015, 11:59 AM   #57
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That is what i did, actually the signal from the sensor did not look bad on an osiloscope, it did have a little spike at the begining of each square wave so i added the capasitor to clean it up without sucsess, i will have to look at the connection to the db37 pin to make sure it is not getting some noise from the board somewhere
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Old 05-02-2015, 12:17 PM   #58
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I just got mine running yesterday and noticed that it had a noisy signal. Bummer, more mods to the wiring. Using MS3Pro, FWIW.

Another vote for ID1000. Used them on a number of builds.
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Old 05-02-2015, 12:40 PM   #59
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Actually this is what i installed and is not the same as what Soviet posted. Attached is what i got from Reverant (i have an MS3 basic)
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Old 05-02-2015, 04:18 PM   #60
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Quote:
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Actually this is what i installed and is not the same as what Soviet posted.
I nominate you test dummy, and expect a full report on my desk by Monday.
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