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Old 09-07-2014, 08:24 PM   #1
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Default Help Me Pick an Engine Build Direction

Background
94 1.8l bp05 N/A with I/H/E mods. Engine Leakdown and oil consumption has prompted me to throw money at my engine instead of a turbo right now . Leakdown numbers are awful 20, 40, 40, 45% straight past the rings. Did the test three times to make sure numbers were right. Car is pretty much my daily during the summer, so reliability is optimal.

Was planning to do a full build on the engine, run it NA for a while then boost it down the road aiming for ~225-250hp range. BUT by chance I ran into a local machine shop that had rebuilt a BP05 motor for a customer who vanished on them. They sold it to me for cheap so now I'm sitting on a 0-mile rebuilt stock motor.

What I have :
MS2PNP (and unfortunately very little tuning knowledge, but I'm a fast learner, and have a computer background. )
~225wtq capable clutch
RX8 420cc injectors
$2500 budget.
Pretty awful income. Full-time student, Full time bike-shop employee (hustler I can get you good deals! PM me!).

Need guidance on what to do :

Option A) Continue down path of building original motor, stash rebuilt stocker as a spare, boost down the road. Spend entire budget on engine build. Begin saving for boost.

Option B) Install new rebuild stocker with new clutch, piece together a 2554 or 2560 turbo kit, tune for 200 whp. Have a fun, lightly-boosted miata. Scrap old motor.

Option C) Install new motor, but keep it N/A. Learn to tune MS better. Keep old motor on the side, stack cash, slowly build motor + a more badass (EFR 6258 ) turbo setup. Drop it in when finished??


I'm heavily leaning towards option B or C now. I really would love to do a turbo build now, but my budget is tight and not 100% confident in my tuning capabilities off the bat, but confident in my ability to learn.

What would you guys do if you were in my position?
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Old 09-07-2014, 08:35 PM   #2
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None. Install MS2. Learn to tune on your backup engine. If you mess it up, you won't be out so much.

Install injectors, tune from them. Learn more.

Install the backup engine, tune again. Learn more.

Install 2554r, have the best turbo for a Miata. Perfect street manners, won't break ****.

Win.
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Old 09-07-2014, 08:39 PM   #3
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Option C) + don't start spending money on new parts until you have a better job and you're out of school. You may need that $2,500 for something important in the mean time.
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Old 09-07-2014, 09:42 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagase View Post
None. Install MS2. Learn to tune on your backup engine. If you mess it up, you won't be out so much.

Install injectors, tune from them. Learn more.

Install the backup engine, tune again. Learn more.

Install 2554r, have the best turbo for a Miata. Perfect street manners, won't break ****.

Win.
Install MS2 on current not-so-healthy engine? Then drop the rebuilt "backup" engine in down the road?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
Option C) + don't start spending money on new parts until you have a better job and you're out of school. You may need that $2,500 for something important in the mean time.
I have a sufficient savings and stable-enough living income. But my miata budget just doesn't grow as fast as those with big-boy jobs , that was the point of my original comment.

Thanks for the input guys!
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Old 09-07-2014, 10:03 PM   #5
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Option B. Put in healthy engine and breathe on it lightly with boost pixies until you finish school.
Then get nuts after school is over.


But this is what you wanted to hear anyway.
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Old 09-07-2014, 10:25 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Chooofoojoo View Post
Install MS2 on current not-so-healthy engine? Then drop the rebuilt "backup" engine in down the road?
Asking questions that don't ask anything? Trying to show confusion and disbelief that things were said?
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Old 09-07-2014, 10:48 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Nagase View Post
Asking questions that don't ask anything? Trying to show confusion and disbelief that things were said?
I was asking to clarify. If I read your comment correctly, it implies that you meant for me to install the MS on my current engine with bigger injectors, then later install my rebuilt engine. Maybe I just can't read.

At any rate that seems out of order and why I asked for clarification.
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Old 09-07-2014, 10:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chooofoojoo View Post
I was asking to clarify. If I read your comment correctly, it implies two backup engines. I was asking if you meant to install the MS on my current engine, then later install my rebuilt engine. Maybe I just can't read.
Ah, that's what you meant.

Just install Ms2. Play with it. Just enough to know what's up and be safe.

Then put on the new engine you have. Leave it non turbo for a long time until you can tune acceleration enrichment in your sleep. Then injectors.

Leave it n/a until you have another car.
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:08 PM   #9
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Makes sense now. Thanks for the clarification.

Time to go read all I can about tuning the MS.

Side question : Stupid idea to pull the oil pan of rebuilt engine and weld a turbo oil return bung on it now and toss some forged rods in with the stock pistons while it's sitting on my engine stand? Or just leave stock rods and drill + tap for oil return while it's out?
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Old 09-11-2014, 03:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chooofoojoo View Post
Makes sense now. Thanks for the clarification.

Time to go read all I can about tuning the MS.

Side question : Stupid idea to pull the oil pan of rebuilt engine and weld a turbo oil return bung on it now and toss some forged rods in with the stock pistons while it's sitting on my engine stand? Or just leave stock rods and drill + tap for oil return while it's out?
Pulling off the stock pan and welding on a fitting is a good idea. Putting in forged rods now will quickly add costs. You will have $300 for rods, $100 for new piston rings, $120ish for ACL bearings, $40 for a hone job, $50 for a head gasket, $xxx various random gaskets that will be to be replaced.
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Old 09-11-2014, 04:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
Pulling off the stock pan and welding on a fitting is a good idea. Putting in forged rods now will quickly add costs. You will have $300 for rods, $100 for new piston rings, $120ish for ACL bearings, $40 for a hone job, $50 for a head gasket, $xxx various random gaskets that will be to be replaced.
I think thought the rod idea was good. If the engine is freshly built I don't see why you'd need to rings/bearings or a hone job and I don't believe the head would even need to come off. Pulling the oilpan to weld a bung on when the motor is out is a no brainer to me. At that point (as far as I can see) he's maybe an hour worth of work and $300 in rods from a 300whp capable motor. Just be really careful to keep everything clean, don't screw up the rings, and get the torque specs perfect.

I like the idea of putting the MS in now and tuning it. Adding rods and a oil return bung to the rebuilt motor and swapping it in. Then start collecting parts for a turbo kit. A super budget cast manifold + sr20 turbo diy kit leaves a ton of little and relatively inexpensive stepping stones as you want more power.
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Old 09-11-2014, 07:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chooofoojoo View Post
Makes sense now. Thanks for the clarification.

Time to go read all I can about tuning the MS.

Side question : Stupid idea to pull the oil pan of rebuilt engine and weld a turbo oil return bung on it now and toss some forged rods in with the stock pistons while it's sitting on my engine stand? Or just leave stock rods and drill + tap for oil return while it's out?
If you pull out rods, you're effectively rebuilding the engine.

The point of that engine is that it was just rebuilt.

Rebuild the engine you take out, not the one you will put in.
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Old 09-12-2014, 12:00 AM   #13
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Just didn't know if I could easily swap rods without much trouble. If it's more hassle then it's worth I'll just plop in the replacement-rebuilt, and build my old motor on the side.

Really appreciate the input guys. I'm sure you've all saved me hours of headache already!
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