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Old 03-17-2010, 11:22 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy View Post
I guess some do come in a convenient 5 quart jug, as most cars require. I know the Rotella T I use comes in a 1 gallon jug, which would be 4 quarts. So yes, my mistake, I guess you do have a 5 quart jug. I still don't see how 5 quarts would be enough to have contact with the crank counterweights. How low on the pan is the return on the MSM? My guess would be the oil got above the return on the pan and maybe restricted return flow and caused it to back up in the turbo and it got past the seals. Does it still leak oil at the turbo after replacing the oil at the correct level? Still not sure how restricted flow would damage a turbo bearing(s), maybe the oil overheated and burned/coked and caused the bearing damage. I haven't done much turbo rebuilding or dealt with many worn turbos, so I'm not real sure of the consequences of that.
The oil drain seem to be about 2 to 3.4 centimeters below the top of the oil pan measuring from pictures I took.

http://media8.dropshots.com/photos/5...130/163052.jpg

http://media8.dropshots.com/photos/5...215/123542.jpg

My Mazdaspeed workshop manual says

Oil Seal Leakage at Compressor End of Turbocharger
Possible cause
Crankcase over-filled.
Restricted turbocharger oil drain line.
Excessive pressure in crankcase.
Turbocharger bearings, bearing bores, or shaft journals worn.

I already had a cylinder compression test 165 165 170 175
Mazdaspeed workshop manual says
Standard 209
Minimum 146

The shop that the compression test was done at was at 2200 ft & it was raining that day because low barometric pressure.

Last edited by MSMjohn; 03-18-2010 at 08:41 PM. Reason: to add altitude
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:47 AM   #22
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sahoteur,
Walmart is just a big store that has the lowest prices on pretty much everything. You Do have to deal with some low income people (if that bothers you), but you can't blame people for going where the cheapest prices are. I prefer Target for the atmosphere, but Walmart has a greater selection of stuff (like oil) and it's hard to beat their prices.

Just as an aside on Walmart. I know a guy who is a gun dealer and I was asking him about his cost on a Ruger Mini 14. He said he can't buy them for what Walmart sells them for so just get it there. That's the power of buying in bulk!
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:56 PM   #23
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Can cylinders with compression of 165 165 170 175 cause excessive crankcase pressure enoughf to blow oil out a turbo compressor.

I already had a cylinder compression test 165 165 170 175
Mazdaspeed workshop manual says
Standard 209
Minimum 146

The mechanic said since the compression check came out OK he felt as though he didn't need to do a leak down test.

Whats involved in a leak down test as far as equipment that you would need extra compared to a compression test?
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Old 03-17-2010, 01:14 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by southernmx5 View Post
Hell, bluff city is almost in my backyard. I dont know anyone else with a turbo miata around though.
I live just across the NC line, an hour and a half from johnson city (an hour in the miata)
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Old 03-17-2010, 01:23 PM   #25
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pull your turbo off
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Old 03-17-2010, 01:28 PM   #26
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If anybody has a Mazdaspeed miata IHI RHF5 turbo laying around I could use it. A used but properly functioning Mazdaspeed miata IHI turbo would be fine also & would help me out a whole lot.
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Old 03-17-2010, 07:41 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSMjohn View Post
Can cylinders with compression of 165 165 170 175 cause excessive crankcase pressure enoughf to blow oil out a turbo compressor.

I already had a cylinder compression test 165 165 170 175
Mazdaspeed workshop manual says
Standard 209
Minimum 146

The mechanic said since the compression check came out OK he felt as though he didn't need to do a leak down test.

Whats involved in a leak down test as far as equipment that you would need extra compared to a compression test?

A leak down test basically tests the valves themselfs to see if they are leaking into/out of the cylinders. If you have good compression that means that your piston rings are OK and that your valves do not have any major leaks. 165-170 is a bit low I suppose, but there are a ton of factors there. Was the engine warm, what altatude are you at, the accuracy of the gauge, etc. A leak down will show you what is leaking based on where air escapes the engine. If its from the throttle body, you have leaking intake valves. If its from the exhaust, then its exhaust valves, etc.

The equipment you need is nothing to whiz-bang. Its a specialized tester that pressurizes a cylinder through its spark plug hole and has a gauge showing the pressure. You turn the engine to get whatever cylinder you are testing to TDC so that the valves are closed. You pressurize the cylinder and record the preessure, then record the pressure as time goes by. You will loose some, but it should be pretty minimal. IIRC most FSMs specify like under 7% leak down over 5 minutes or something along those lines. Its a bit more time consuming than a comp test because of the waiting and the need to turn the engine to TDC for each cylinder.

The fact that all cylinders are within 10 psi is also good. If you have damage somewhere it tends to result in a very wide range in pressures.

I suppose tons of pressure in the crank case could be an issue for the turbo, maybe the retun would not work so well and thus oil would build-up or something. But frankly I doubt it. I think you just have a dead turbo. Shavings in the oil is a good way to torch bearings and piston rings though if the engine is run that way.

Last edited by Sparetire; 03-17-2010 at 07:53 PM. Reason: The Equipment...
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Old 03-18-2010, 01:22 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparetire View Post
A leak down test basically tests the valves themselfs to see if they are leaking into/out of the cylinders. If you have good compression that means that your piston rings are OK and that your valves do not have any major leaks. 165-170 is a bit low I suppose, but there are a ton of factors there. Was the engine warm, what altatude are you at, the accuracy of the gauge, etc. A leak down will show you what is leaking based on where air escapes the engine. If its from the throttle body, you have leaking intake valves. If its from the exhaust, then its exhaust valves, etc.

The equipment you need is nothing to whiz-bang. Its a specialized tester that pressurizes a cylinder through its spark plug hole and has a gauge showing the pressure. You turn the engine to get whatever cylinder you are testing to TDC so that the valves are closed. You pressurize the cylinder and record the preessure, then record the pressure as time goes by. You will loose some, but it should be pretty minimal. IIRC most FSMs specify like under 7% leak down over 5 minutes or something along those lines. Its a bit more time consuming than a comp test because of the waiting and the need to turn the engine to TDC for each cylinder.

The fact that all cylinders are within 10 psi is also good. If you have damage somewhere it tends to result in a very wide range in pressures.

I suppose tons of pressure in the crank case could be an issue for the turbo, maybe the retun would not work so well and thus oil would build-up or something. But frankly I doubt it. I think you just have a dead turbo. Shavings in the oil is a good way to torch bearings and piston rings though if the engine is run that way.
Thanks Sparetire this was very helpful thanks for spending the time to explain.

The cylinder compression seemed a bit low to me but I forgot to take into consideration the altitude I live at here in the mountains. The shop I had it tested at was 2200 ft & it was raining when he did the test so their was a low barometric pressure that day also.

The car had a distinct feeling during full throttle when the compressor leaked oil. It felt like the turbo was slowing down & producing less boost & the car accelerated slower & the times I recall having this feeling is when the car was going down hill & the oil drain for the turbo is at the front of the engine oil pan.

From the time when my turbo failed I drove 3 miles home with particles in the oil. I drained the 5 quarts of oil out changed the oil filter & put 4 brand new quarts of oil in the engine for the mechanic to do a compression test & I drove the car home so the total driving time with new oil was about 15 miles total.

Last edited by MSMjohn; 03-18-2010 at 01:25 AM. Reason: added stuff
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:54 AM   #29
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That shouldnt hurt anything. There is a chance, but its unlikely.

If going downhill affected it, then I might be wrong about the extra oil. Maybe it did cause the oil blow-by issue on the turbo. Hugh.
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Old 03-18-2010, 08:37 PM   #30
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I figured since the oil blew by the compressor while going down hill the oil may have been slightly higher at the front of the oil pan while going downhill where the oil drain of the turbo is.

Im pretty sure now how I got confused & put 5 quarts of oil in my engine instead of 4 quarts.
I went to the autoparts store to check out the price of oil & a filter & read the one large Mobil 1 synthetic oil container & it said it was actually a 4 quart container. I did not purchase the oil from the auto parts store but also went to Walmart to see if it was less expensive. The prices were about the same so I bought the oil at Walmart. I assumed the one large oil container from Walmart was 4 quarts because the oil container at the auto parts store & Walmart looked the same. Because the prices were similar I also assumed the quantity of the containers were the same.
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