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Old 04-07-2009, 11:17 AM   #21
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HD - Constructed of highest quality 1.75 X .120 inch 1026 alloy drawn over mandrel tubing

BF - All Boss Frog rollbars are made of the highest quality 1-3/4" x 1/8" wall DOM tubing, with heavy 3/16” CNC plasma cut flat parts
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:30 AM   #22
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2mm is awfully thin.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:38 AM   #23
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haha 2mm!
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:58 AM   #24
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Maybe if they posted some crash pics like Hard dog does it would help with some credibility.

Hard Dog Roll Bars - Customer Testimonials

I'm happy with the choice I made. I would rather skimp in another department rather than the safety one.
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Old 04-07-2009, 12:17 PM   #25
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I don't think they are using stainless, its to expensive. spec miata cage is 1.5" .095 DOM mild steel tube last time i checked, but that was a while ago. I went with .120 wall when I built my cage. You don't know if they are using pipe, HERW tubing or DOM tubing. and there is a HUGE difference, I wouldn't touch a roll bar I couldn't see being built, That's why I build my own.
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Old 04-07-2009, 12:19 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I've always wanted to depend on 8 cheap allen head screws to make sure I don't die....
Like the ones holding on your ebay steering wheel? Or was that 5 or 6?

18psi,
Isn't a turbo tubular manifold just a bunch of pipes welded together? How are the ebay ones holding up?

Frank
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Old 04-07-2009, 12:21 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icantthink4155 View Post
HD - Constructed of highest quality 1.75 X .120 inch 1026 alloy drawn over mandrel tubing

BF - All Boss Frog rollbars are made of the highest quality 1-3/4" x 1/8" wall DOM tubing, with heavy 3/16 CNC plasma cut flat parts
So in other words they use the same thing.
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Old 04-07-2009, 12:25 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by fmowry View Post
Like the ones holding on your ebay steering wheel? Or was that 5 or 6?

there are 6. i retighten them every few months...no worries!
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Old 04-07-2009, 12:26 PM   #29
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those control arms have shitty fitment, but they still work. For the rear at least.
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Old 04-07-2009, 02:39 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa View Post
Now you're an expert on building materials too.

BTW, "I won't die if I'm wrong" sounds so melodramatic. That's a win even for you




I've seen the threads sheer out of cheap adjustable tubular control arms. I personally wouldn't chance it.
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Old 04-07-2009, 02:57 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vashthestampede View Post

That's the business right there.


As far as Chinese materials are concerned, I will step up and say that I do know. I work for a fastener manufacturer that sells to all the big oil companies. In the last couple of years we have begun sourcing parts from China, and producing less of our own. We have tried to find viable supply chains, with decent Quality departments, and have found it nearly impossibly. We still do all of our own testing, and 20% of the Chinese material fails. Consistently.

This **** is Engineering Materials 101. We ask for B7, we get something that is waaaay off the HRB scale, and the 12ft nominal bars have cracks at the end. The Charpy Impact tests are just plain entertaining sometimes.

Then when the material is right, the dimensions are wrong. They have no idea what ASME standards are, and they consistently screw up orders.

Chinese made ANYTHING was crap when I was a kid, and still is. And it still will be as long as there are dumbasses that will buy it, including our previous Operations Manager that thought it would be a good idea to stock up on 2,500 pallets of Chinese fasteners.

[/red China hatin']



I would consider an eGay rollbar a style bar, and a poseur piece.

If you want to look like you race, and appear to be safety conscious, get one...

I personally wouldn't waste the shipping dollars and installation time.
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Old 04-08-2009, 11:02 AM   #32
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I can tell you that not ALL Chinese material and metalwork is ****. The largest AISC-certified structural steel fabrication yard is in China. It's bigger than anything we have ever had, even during our reign as steel king. I visited it this past fall for some inspections; they are VOLUNTARILY asking for further inspections and testing, trying to build our (USA) trust in their work. They're building some of the steel piers for the new Bay Bridge, and they're damn nice. Want to see an army of America-certified 5000+ Chinese welders? It's impressive.

I know that this example is on a whole different level of production than the rinky-dink "factories" making ebay car parts, but you can't blast the whole country's manufacturing capability.
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Old 04-08-2009, 11:33 AM   #33
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And the wonderful thing about manufacturing in China is that it can been done at no expense (to the environment) spared. No EPA hurdles like we have here. That keeps costs down, giving the U.S. client products and quality they demand, at prices they dream of.
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Old 04-08-2009, 12:40 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta93LE View Post
I can tell you that not ALL Chinese material and metalwork is ****.
No, not all of it, only about 20% in our industry. The sad part is you still have to pay for that 20% to be made, shipped, and have it's carbon footprint, only to find out it's crap.

EDIT: If 20% of our parts failed, we wouldn't have a single contract with the likes of Exxon-Mobil, Aramco etc. But they pay us for quality more than they do for parts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta93LE View Post
they are VOLUNTARILY asking for further inspections and testing, trying to build our (USA) trust in their work.
That's actually pretty cool, and I know there are many Chinese manufacturers that are trying. Like I said, we followed a supply chain, mainly because they asked us to whenever we complained about quality. Our CEO, Op Man, and QA guys went. They came back and said we are still doing ALL of our own testing, but that they saw some things they liked, and made as many suggestions as they could.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta93LE View Post
I know that this example is on a whole different level of production than the rinky-dink "factories" making ebay car parts, but you can't blast the whole country's manufacturing capability.
No, but you can blast them in general based on what is available to consumers. Even educated consumers, like our relatively small 300 employee company can be affected by a lack of quality in Chinese materials and parts. We put extensive effort into making sure they would deliver what we ordered, and we still saw quality well below what is acceptable.

Btw, you think a warranty on a Chinese turbo is hard to cash in, try returning 500+ tons of cheap Chinese fasteners.
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Old 04-08-2009, 01:46 PM   #35
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There is further shittiness about the roll bar that hasn't been mentioned, and should be in case some cash-strapped or just plain retarded noob is pondering "saving $200" by getting that POS versus a bar from a reputable manufacturer with a proven track record.

A 2mm wall thickness is inadequate by itself, but even if it was 1.75" 1/8" wall DOM, the basic design would still be crap. As ZX-Tex mentioned, the way it mounts to the car is not particularly sound. It bolts only to one plane of the unibody structure, whereas crash-proven bars on the market also attach to the seat belt tower and the unibody again in the vertical plane, making it far more sturdy under the forces likely to occur in a rollover. Technically, the POS bar only has two mounting points (they are large, but there are only two of them) so it would not pass tech with track groups that require 4-pt bars.

The basic fit will also be crap. It looks pretty tall, yet they claim it will fit with a hardtop. That's probably because it's Sofa King narrow that it's nowhere near the full width of the interior. The uprights are behind the center line of the seats, which creates another safety issue. How are you going to attach the outboard shoulder straps (driver's left and passenger's right)? Any way you do it will be suboptimal because the harness bar isn't wide enough.

I know that when I think "safety," the number one brand that comes to mind is ilovetacotaco.
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Old 04-08-2009, 02:46 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m2cupcar View Post
And the wonderful thing about manufacturing in China is that it can been done at no expense (to the environment) spared. No EPA hurdles like we have here. That keeps costs down, giving the U.S. client products and quality they demand, at prices they dream of.
they're livin the dream!

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Old 04-08-2009, 03:20 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
No offense, but if its welded properly and mounts properly like the name brand roll bars what would make this item any inferior? Just doesn't make sense to me, its just a bunch of piping welded together: pretty straightforward. I'll be making my own, so I have no interest in it, just doesn't look that bad at all quality wise.
I am not sure about the Chinese control arms. But the roll bar no way are they the same. The Chinese bar mounts to the top of the package shelf and that is it. Even my cheap Autopower bar mounted in similar fashion as the Hard Dog bars. Through the package shelf to the lower chassis, and the upper mount is where most install the upper chassis brace.

Here are the instructions for the HD for better clarification
Miata Hard Core and M2 Hard Core Bar Installation Instructions
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