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Old 02-16-2007, 11:02 AM   #1
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Default Looking to lower. Options?

Kind Miata people,

yet another noob question. It's somewhat unique and I wasn't able to find any specific answers.

My 90NA came equiped with '05 MSM Bilstein suspension setup. I can't complain about performance characteristics, but since it's an NB setup, my car looks "raised" compared to other NA's. On the contrary, I would like to see my NA lowered and possibly see some handling improvement.

What options do I have?

1. Complete suspension swap - NA KONI + Lowering springs or similar setup.
2. Lowering springs for Bilsteins. I am a bit confused about this approach, since I would probably need to get NB springs? And I doubt there will be any lowering effect as MSM setup already has shorter springs.

This is what the car looks like right now (Paint is actually quite nice - just dirty ):



Obviously money is a big factor, so if it's a complete swap how much could I recover for the MSM setup?

Thanks!
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Old 02-16-2007, 11:12 AM   #2
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if you got lowering springs for the MSM, then you should end up shorter than you are now.
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Old 02-16-2007, 11:42 AM   #3
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It looks like you autox it, so the best performance mod you could do is to cut your stock springs. I think there's a writeup on m.net...:gay:
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Old 02-16-2007, 11:54 AM   #4
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I do drive the car as well, so reliability is of concern. First SOLO on the Maita. Had a WRX before.

Plus would be a shame to cut springs from the MSM setup. I already have someone interested in the springs for their stock 1.8 setup.

It sounds like swapping the setup is a lot easier and would wind up cheaper.

Anyone got a street price for a used 05 MSM setup? Swapped in last April. About 3K since swap not sure how many miles on the donor.
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Old 02-16-2007, 12:03 PM   #5
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SamS was being tongue in cheek about cutting the springs. However, it would be a valid way to go despite what some people may think.

Send a PM to brgracer, I think he runs NB suspension on his NA. I personally would sell the setup you have now and purchase something else. Koni/GC or one of the entry level Tein coilovers.
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Old 02-16-2007, 12:43 PM   #6
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whats your budget? you can get a ton of different lowering springs, if you just want to be a little lower than stock height on a normal na, maybe thats the easier way to go. like FM or H&R on the high price end, and like eibachs or tein springs on the lower price scale.
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Old 02-16-2007, 01:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
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It looks like you autox it, so the best performance mod you could do is to cut your stock springs. I think there's a writeup on m.net...:gay:
hahaha
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Old 02-16-2007, 01:05 PM   #8
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aren't the msm bilsteins shorter than standard hd's? If so then get some 440/350GC's.
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Old 02-16-2007, 01:28 PM   #9
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Since you already have the shocks, I'd go with the GCs.... I've got 450/350 rates on mine.

Of course, the other option would be to go for something like the Tein's where you can shorten the body of the shock too.....

Dave,
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Old 02-16-2007, 01:34 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by VRTSid View Post
whats your budget? you can get a ton of different lowering springs, if you just want to be a little lower than stock height on a normal na, maybe thats the easier way to go. like FM or H&R on the high price end, and like eibachs or tein springs on the lower price scale.
I realize there are a number of options. The caveat is that I have an MSM suspension with Bilstein shocks of off 05 Mazdaspeed NB. So lowering springs alone won't really give me much lowering compared to stock NA as I am already sitting taller.

I'd like to perform the whole operation in under $150 - considering the parts that could be resold. Be that a spring swap or a complete system swap.

Complete Suspension swap sounds like a simpler choice.
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Old 02-16-2007, 01:56 PM   #11
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Talk to Shaikh (pronounced "shake") at FatCat Motorsports. He's an autocrosser, and recently opened his own business doing Miata suspension work. He does custom re-valve work on Bilstein shocks, manufactures some accessory parts including spacers, bumpstops, and a very cool NB shock mount conversion kit (which automatically drops the car a half inch), and is an absolute guru when it comes to suspension tuning.

Check out his website at: http://www.fatcatmotorsports.com He also hangs out in the Suspension forum over on M.net.

No affiliation, other than that I spent last weekend hanging with him when he was down in So. Cal racing.

BTW- I see you're SM2, that's a tough class. Are you running forced induction?
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Old 02-16-2007, 02:04 PM   #12
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yeah Shaikh is great. I am thinking abotu taking out the AGX on my 99 and geting the stock Bilstien's revalved and putting those back on.
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Old 02-16-2007, 02:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
BTW- I see you're SM2, that's a tough class. Are you running forced induction?
Yep. Stock Greddy 1.6 with relocated air filter. Just installed last month. I was still getting my *** handed to me by non-turbo miatas and a lot of others as weel

Faulken Ziex 512 aint exactly a racing tire :-) and my intake hose flew off towards the last couple runs which caused the car to choke a 'lil. Only realized I had 0 boost when driving out of the parking lot. (at least that's my excuse for suckiness at driving).
Solo 2 Results

Yeah I was reading Shaikh's posts on M.net. Seems very knowledgable. I'll see what options he has for me.
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Old 02-16-2007, 06:09 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by beasty555 View Post
Hahahahaha. You placed first in class, dude! Of course, you also placed last as well.

Seriously though, not bad. Nice improvement trend, and very competative with the two drivers running the WRX and the Integra in SM, and I don't see a single cone on there. Granted, still only mid-field compared to the ES Miatas, but running FI can be tough. I went for a ride in an Ubercharged NB last weekend on what was about a 55-60 second course, and we spent a whole lot of time driftin'.
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Old 02-16-2007, 06:49 PM   #15
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Shaikh is great, buy from him!

What's the difference between NA and NB suspension other than the tophat? Could my bilstein/GC/FCM setup be considered an NB suspension then?

SM2, sigh. I remember when I ran SM2 with my 90 CRX, only n/a FWD there, got my *** handed to me by the turbo Miatas and the 330whp FD, but it was fun!
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Old 02-16-2007, 10:01 PM   #16
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JIC-Magic FLT-A2 for the win..

..On a more budget friendly note, GCs with revalved Konis would come in second from everyone elses words, but I have never ran the later on my car.
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Old 02-16-2007, 10:20 PM   #17
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Just a note, if you do put an NB suspension on the car, it'll work fine, but you have to do a complete swap with the shocks, springs, mounts all together. Here's a thought: get a bilstein NB suspension from a 99 sport on the cheap, use it for a year, and next winter send them out to Shaik for a custom revalve.
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Old 02-17-2007, 11:44 AM   #18
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I am confused now ... I pretty much heard all the options

Now let's try to sort out the best bang for the buck.

This is all for a 90 NA with 05 MSM setup already on it:

1. 05 MSM Bilstein shocks with GC coilover kit. Here Is that doable? Will I see a performance increase along with a body drop? Can MSM Bilsteins handle a different spring rate?

2. MSM Lowering springs - Here
Is that much different from a stock MSM suspension?

3. A full blown suspension swap. Some version of FM setup with GC coilovers.

I was really excited about option 1. I could sell the MSM springs and save a bit.
Option 2 is also doable only if there is considerable performance/height change.
Option 3 easier to install, but will end up costing a lot more.

Merci!
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Old 02-17-2007, 12:40 PM   #19
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call GC on fitment for the bilstein fitment, because I don't know if the msm bilstein perch comes right off. I talked to the bilstein people about the 4/350 rates, and they said it would be fine, though under damped.
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