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Old 08-31-2012, 07:39 PM   #1
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Default Loosing my mind! Can get the Motor to run...I need help!

Hi Guys, I can not get the Motor to run after the install. Motor cranks over well ,but does not start!

Here's brief history of what happened with the car....

6 years ago, I had problem with oil smoke pouring out of the exhaust. Without much of testing, I concluded that it was bad Motor( Yes, I was an idiot). I had spare rebuilt Motor in the garage, so swap the engine over and installed rest of the component(including FMII Turbo kit/ Link ECU) I had in the old motor. Rebuilt Motor turned over and ran at first try. However, oil smoke was still there and found out my turbo seal was bad. With the new turbo, problem was solved. The motor I thought it was bad was the original motor with the car(about 40k when it was pulled) ,so I kept it in the engine stand inside of my garage.

Few month ago, I was greeted by familiar blue smoke ,but this time it was enough to filled the full 6 lane freeway! I made it back to work and did some testing and found out it was the engine this time. After tearing it down, I had broken piston skirts on #3 and #4 cyl.

Since, my original motor wasn't the problem last time, I decided to install that motor back in the car. I took the head off and got it decked and assembled it with new Head gasket, water pump, timing belt, oil pan gasket and ARP studs. Just very basic freshen up on the motor.

After full check list, I cranked over the engine and it sounded normal at crank ,but would not fire up. After few more try, i was greeted with LOUD back fire. I figure it was just giving me hard time b/c motor was dried and sitting for 6 years. After few more tries I gave up b/c all it was doing was cranking and loud back fire at the end.

I took the front of the motor apart and re check the timing. Everything looked good and all lined up well at TDC. Can't find any signs of obvious 'timing set' mistakes.

Here's the list of what I've tripled checked so far:

1. Crank nose notch lines up with TDC mark.
2. At TDC, Both Intake and Exhaust sprockets lines up well to the.
3. Timing belt has 19 teeth between the cam sprockets.
4. Very first (Front of the car) cam lobes are pointing about 3 and 9 oclock and away from each other. After full rotation on the crank, they are pointing at each other.
5. Checked coil pack and it was good ,but swap it with another good one just in case.
6. took the spark plugs out and fire it out side to see if they have good spark, and they did.
7. Fuel pressure gauge reads good and fuel rail has good pressure(Don't ask me how I found that out...lol )
8. Injector relay checked and it's good
9. Fuel return and feed line are not reversed
10. No vacuum leaks....far as I know.
11. Triple checked all of the wiring.
12. CAS swap out with another good one just in case.
13. Link fires up normal and I can hear the fuel prime.
14. Normal oil pressure.
15. Tried to start with starter fluid and greeted with back fire from the intake. Motor did not start at all.
16. drop in the metal rod through the spark plug hole and at TDC, I measured #1 piston was all the way up on it's highest point.

Here's what I have and added to the motor:
It's 1995 BP8C with older FMII kit. GT28R, LINK, 550cc injectors, Fast forward fuel rail...pretty basic stuff.

Something I got new after rebuilt motor broke

1. phenolic intake manifold spacer
2. Gauges for fuel pressure, boost, Water temp, oil pressure and Exhaust gas temp
3. Remote oil filter with oil cooler.

Every signs tells me Timing is 180 degrees off and causing it to not start...,but can not find the reason why...I'm totally out of ideas...can anyone think of any? Please? : (

Some pictures of timing at TDC







Attached Thumbnails
Loosing my mind! Can get the Motor to run...I need help!-cams_attdc.jpg   Loosing my mind! Can get the Motor to run...I need help!-timing_belt.jpg   Loosing my mind! Can get the Motor to run...I need help!-crank_at_tdc.jpg   Loosing my mind! Can get the Motor to run...I need help!-tdc1.jpg   Loosing my mind! Can get the Motor to run...I need help!-tdc1full.jpg  

Loosing my mind! Can get the Motor to run...I need help!-tdc2.jpg   Loosing my mind! Can get the Motor to run...I need help!-tdc2full.jpg  

Last edited by kickinoutyo; 08-31-2012 at 08:06 PM.
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:31 PM   #2
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Does you have catalitic convertor? If so try starting the car with it disconected. If you had a huge *** oil leak into the exhaust it might have gotten gummed up.
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:55 PM   #3
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Do you have the coil leads switched?
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Old 09-01-2012, 03:09 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
Does you have catalitic convertor? If so try starting the car with it disconected. If you had a huge *** oil leak into the exhaust it might have gotten gummed up.
No cats but that is good point...I have 3in with absolutely no restriction.
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Old 09-01-2012, 03:10 AM   #5
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Do you have the coil leads switched?
Coil leads? you mean spark plug order? 4123 for 1.8l I have that correct.
Plug in the back is in correct order b/c I marked it.
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:28 AM   #6
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Did you recheck valve lash after the head was refreshed? I would say your next step would be a leakdown test.
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Old 09-01-2012, 11:15 AM   #7
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Take your cam gear bolts out - your gears sound like they are not properly aligned on the cams. Each gear has 3 possible "slots" in it, and each cam has a single "lock lobe" on it - you'll see it by simply taking the bolt off of the cam gear - you don't even need to pull the gear or the belt to confirm.

The "lock lobe" of the cam should be in the "slot" that points toward the "I" on the intake side.

The "lock lobe" of the cam should be in the "slot" that points toward the "E" on the exhaust side.

Evidence suggests it's the intake cam.

Edit: I don't believe it's possible to be 180 degrees off (180 degrees off at the cam, 360 degrees off at the crank), your fuel/ignition are based on cam position. Being 180/360 off would require the timing to be based on crank position.

Last edited by fooger03; 09-01-2012 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 09-01-2012, 12:05 PM   #8
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Do you have the coil pack connectors installed properly? I know mine were color coded from a previous owner to make sure the correct connector goes on the corresponding coil pack.
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Old 09-01-2012, 12:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooger03 View Post
Evidence suggests it's the intake cam.

the lobes are pointing the correct direction.

backfire says too much fuel. is the link set for 550cc injectors?
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Old 09-01-2012, 12:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kickinoutyo View Post
Coil leads? you mean spark plug order? 4123 for 1.8l I have that correct.
Plug in the back is in correct order b/c I marked it.
the coil pairing is more important. You have 2 coils for 4 cylinders both fire twice per cycle.

but it sounds more like too much fuel or cam timing is still off.
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flounder View Post
Did you recheck valve lash after the head was refreshed? I would say your next step would be a leakdown test.
I didn't... Head was in fine working order when it was removed and only thing that was done was surfaced ,so I didn't really thought of it. Leak down test it is.

Thanks!
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooger03 View Post
Take your cam gear bolts out - your gears sound like they are not properly aligned on the cams. Each gear has 3 possible "slots" in it, and each cam has a single "lock lobe" on it - you'll see it by simply taking the bolt off of the cam gear - you don't even need to pull the gear or the belt to confirm.

The "lock lobe" of the cam should be in the "slot" that points toward the "I" on the intake side.

The "lock lobe" of the cam should be in the "slot" that points toward the "E" on the exhaust side.

Evidence suggests it's the intake cam.

Edit: I don't believe it's possible to be 180 degrees off (180 degrees off at the cam, 360 degrees off at the crank), your fuel/ignition are based on cam position. Being 180/360 off would require the timing to be based on crank position.
If you look at the cam lobe position at TDC on above pictures, they are in correct position.
'Lock lobe' meaning little pin on the cams that fits on to slot on the gears right? At TDC they are pointing 12 O'clock. I don;t think I have this wrong b/c
at TDC, everything points to right direction.
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:36 PM   #13
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Do you have the coil pack connectors installed properly? I know mine were color coded from a previous owner to make sure the correct connector goes on the corresponding coil pack.
Yup, b/c I also marked it before pulling the engine.
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:39 PM   #14
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the lobes are pointing the correct direction.

backfire says too much fuel. is the link set for 550cc injectors?
Link is set at 550cc. Back fire happens only after 4-5 sec of cranking. My guess was it eventually fills up with enough fuel and compression it ignites at wrong time?
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Old 09-01-2012, 02:36 PM   #15
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Have you checked your crank plate? Is it installed inside out?
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Old 09-01-2012, 03:15 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by nismo502 View Post
Have you checked your crank plate? Is it installed inside out?
Do the older 1.8's have a ckps and wheel? I thought it was all run off the cas?
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Old 09-01-2012, 04:06 PM   #17
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Update! Car runs!



I switched firing order to 2341 and it fired right up.

I totally feel like an idiot... When I pull the motor out, some how I must have marked the coilpack plugs wrong...maybe I was too tired...

One of the first thing I did check was to switched the coilpack plugs ,but did not fire. My guess is fuel or Link didn't booted correctly that time. Just bad coincident I guess...
I just never thought I would make a such a rookie mistake! feeling like I'm back in high school ricer period...lol

Lesson here is that 'Mark' everything clearly and double check you marks before you pull the motor....I'm sure everyone knows that.

Well, Thanks everyone for help!

Last edited by kickinoutyo; 09-01-2012 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 09-01-2012, 04:09 PM   #18
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Do the older 1.8's have a ckps and wheel? I thought it was all run off the cas?
96 and above has ckps.
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Old 09-01-2012, 04:09 PM   #19
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Do you have the coil leads switched?

Who's Steve?
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Old 09-01-2012, 05:00 PM   #20
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Who's Steve?
I meant Flounder...
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