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Old 04-05-2010, 12:33 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
aight man either the NB prices have been on the rebound or you guys dont know how to negotiate my first miata was almost a 99ae red and pretty fresh for 6500 dollars back in 03 instead i got the 92 with a hardtop etc 1 owner garage kept etc for alot less money.
I am a terrible haggler, terrible. I hate it.
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Old 04-05-2010, 12:41 PM   #42
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aight man either the NB prices have been on the rebound or you guys dont know how to negotiate my first miata was almost a 99ae red and pretty fresh for 6500 dollars back in 03 instead i got the 92 with a hardtop etc 1 owner garage kept etc for alot less money.
Oh that's cool....considering there is no such thing as a red 99AE.
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Old 05-02-2010, 11:10 AM   #43
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Newbie here. I am looking at purchasing an 05 Mazdaspeed MX-5 ($10.6K w/ 50K miles in nice shape) with the hopes of upgrading it. I am trying to figure out how to get the most bang for the buck. The major limitation I have seen so far is that I have to spend a small fortune to get decent engine management, correct? I have Subaru (Legacy GT) background so I have been spoiled - for less than $200, I bought an OBDII to USB cable and a good tuner can reflash the stock ecu with free opensource software.

I was thinking that a nice upgrade for the MS would be an upgraded turbine and compressor wheel (~700 for a BNR or Blouch upgrade) - or upgraded bolt on aftermarket turbo (if one exists for the MS), injectors and pump, intake/exhuast and tune for water/meth or E-85.

I saw a few posts back an inexpensive way to add a few bolt ons for around 200whp, but I did not see any engine management. From my experience, I would be scared to death adding mods to my car w/o being able to have it tuned properly and being able to easily log for knock, poor AFRs... But, again, I don't want to spend $2K on a standalone ECU - that's 20% of the car I'm looking at lol.

This thread has me seriously thinking that the MS is not the way to go. My goal is 250-300whp. It sounds like that is not possible with the MS without replacing the entire MS turbo system for over $5K. I also don't understand why the MS engine does not appear to be able to be boosted much higher than the earlier N/A engines. I've been running 20 psi on my Legacy GT at 5200' altitude for 2 years on the stock engine with no problems, but as I understand it - no way that will happen on a MS engine without rebuilding it?

Sorry for the newbie questions, but a lightweight high whp car has always intrigued me and the car I am looking at seems like a good deal, but I don't want to regret buying it given my power goals. Any advice would be appreciated.
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Old 05-02-2010, 04:28 PM   #44
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You basically (based on my research reading) need to upgrade the intake, downpipe, exhaust, and intercooler. Then you'll need a tune. I'm not sure how the "tune part" happens. There is an ECU called the Adaptronic that seems to be used by a lot of forum members. I priced a used one of those for $700. With that thing, you can even add traction control.

All of that (used) would put you at just under $2000 without labor.
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Old 05-02-2010, 05:26 PM   #45
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Modding the MSM is a slippery slope in regards to power. Once you get a new intake, fmic, and TB elbow you're gonna really see some short comings, at leas IMO. First is that you're going to have a hesititaion from closed to open loop that needs to be addressed by either an O2 modifier or a new ECU. Second, for me, is the gearing. Stocking the gearing is about perfect once you add any sort of power adder 1st becomes worthless and second isn't much better. It gets worse the more power mods you do. I love my MSM and wouldn't trade for anything but like I said it's pretty downhill once you start messing with it.
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Old 05-02-2010, 07:00 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 05pearl View Post
Newbie here. I am looking at purchasing an 05 Mazdaspeed MX-5 ($10.6K w/ 50K miles in nice shape) with the hopes of upgrading it. I am trying to figure out how to get the most bang for the buck. The major limitation I have seen so far is that I have to spend a small fortune to get decent engine management, correct? I have Subaru (Legacy GT) background so I have been spoiled - for less than $200, I bought an OBDII to USB cable and a good tuner can reflash the stock ecu with free opensource software.

I was thinking that a nice upgrade for the MS would be an upgraded turbine and compressor wheel (~700 for a BNR or Blouch upgrade) - or upgraded bolt on aftermarket turbo (if one exists for the MS), injectors and pump, intake/exhuast and tune for water/meth or E-85.

I saw a few posts back an inexpensive way to add a few bolt ons for around 200whp, but I did not see any engine management. From my experience, I would be scared to death adding mods to my car w/o being able to have it tuned properly and being able to easily log for knock, poor AFRs... But, again, I don't want to spend $2K on a standalone ECU - that's 20% of the car I'm looking at lol.

This thread has me seriously thinking that the MS is not the way to go. My goal is 250-300whp. It sounds like that is not possible with the MS without replacing the entire MS turbo system for over $5K. I also don't understand why the MS engine does not appear to be able to be boosted much higher than the earlier N/A engines. I've been running 20 psi on my Legacy GT at 5200' altitude for 2 years on the stock engine with no problems, but as I understand it - no way that will happen on a MS engine without rebuilding it?

Sorry for the newbie questions, but a lightweight high whp car has always intrigued me and the car I am looking at seems like a good deal, but I don't want to regret buying it given my power goals. Any advice would be appreciated.
I would check this thread: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=367797
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Old 05-02-2010, 11:39 PM   #47
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05pearl- 20lbs in a mazdaspeed will get you over 350whp with the proper turbo. That's a lot of powa. The NAs run more boost because they're a little stronger but 15psi in an NA is about equivilant to 12psi in an NB because of displacement.

I recommend upgrading and keeping the stock turbo and ecu first. 190hp really is pretty darn good and you can tear some **** up with the stock mazdaspeed suspension. If you really want the extra 30-40hp you can rip out all the stock turbo **** and go aftermarket. It won't cost you $5000 though if you buy used. I've seen total package FM2 kits w/ Hydra for sale here for welll under $5K. And on http://mazda-speed.com there are a lot of used mazdaspeed upgrades for sale as well.

What I really recommend is buying a pre-built turbo'd NB. Nice ones come on sale here about once a month. That would cost you about the same as the mazdaspeed and it would be much more badass.
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:59 PM   #48
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I picked up my 04 MSM with 11k miles for 12k. 1 owner never seen rain. I bought everything in the LE kit used for $500. Can't beat the value of these cars.
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Old 05-05-2010, 10:07 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by srproductions View Post
I picked up my 04 MSM with 11k miles for 12k. 1 owner never seen rain. I bought everything in the LE kit used for $500. Can't beat the value of these cars.
What is the LE kit?
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Old 05-05-2010, 10:23 AM   #50
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Little Enchilada from FM.
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Old 06-21-2010, 11:39 AM   #51
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Default Old thread but my 2 cents

We shopped Miatas for some time. We have owned NA's and NB's, we also looked at NC's. Our priorities were road worthiness, comfort, style and flat out speed. The car will eventually become a dedicated track car but we wanted to drive it while we were building, so it had to be nice.

Late model, low mileage NB's were high. MSMs were only slightly higher. In fact after some smart shopping we found a FM-Little Enchilada modified, 05' for nearly exactly the same money as an 04-05 NB. It also had $2k or so of other upgrades. In essence, it is ready for a bigger turbo and an ECU and it should be ready to rock

Is it fast? Not yet. It handles well enough. It has great seats and a stiff chassis. It handles much better than a stock NB. But at that price the turbo and intercooler etc were free. The MSM is a nice car that has features well beyond just the turbo. We considered the turbo and ECU as throw aways. Generally speaking we just thought it was a nicer car for about the same money.

So,

1. Short first gear sucks, six speed does not suck (we'll change gears) ($400)

2. It has a wimpy turbo (we'll yank it and the mani and replace them with something more substantial) ($2k)

3. The ECU bites (MS, here we come) ($1k)


When I am done, what do I have? A gorgeous limited production car, that is fast, handles well and cost me a few bucks more than a standard NB. For me it was a no brainer.
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:10 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Turbospeed View Post
1. Short first gear sucks, six speed does not suck (we'll change gears) ($400)
Thank you!

I have to laugh at the ******* asshats on M-S/mnet who are all about swapping to a 5-spd citing the 6-spd is shitty and too short. It's far wiser to swap the 4:10 for a 3:9 or 3:6.....not that the 6,500rpm redline on the MSM was a great idea either. People swapping out the 6spds will soon figure out how weak they are north of 200rwhp.
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Old 06-21-2010, 09:15 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Newbsauce View Post
Since no one mentioned it and this appears to be a MSM vs NB w/ turbo thread:

I would assume the insurance premiums are higher on the MSM
I dunno if anyone mentioned it, but that's not true. Most insurance companies think/treat it as though its a standard NB model. Not sure why. Both wawanessa and Geico In my experience.

also, 240hp is pretty do-able with an upgraded turbo, 250-260 with methanol pretty easy. Leatherface as you saw went nuts and squeezed about all he could out of the stocker.

I'd say upgraded intercooler piping/intake is the biggest bang for the buck on the car, period. 3" exhaust is a bit excessive but certainly helps spool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppelgänger View Post
Thank you!

I have to laugh at the ******* asshats on M-S/mnet who are all about swapping to a 5-spd citing the 6-spd is shitty and too short. It's far wiser to swap the 4:10 for a 3:9 or 3:6.....not that the 6,500rpm redline on the MSM was a great idea either. People swapping out the 6spds will soon figure out how weak they are north of 200rwhp.
Before you make such a dumb, generalized statement, you should realize everyone's exerpience with the MSM 6-speed is different, dude. You do realize we have some synchro and shift gate problems in that box right from the getgo, right? I've had my car for 40k miles now, and when I first got it the synchro's were just starting to suck, by this year the car was just a pain in the *** to shift. Its not the worst manual I've ever driven, and I didn't really miss shifts, but there is a lot more effort and no positive feel to that stupid trans. I'd say it feels like its 15yrs older than it really is, like my older Audi or chevy. So, I figurd instead of rebuilding it, a $150 5-speed was a better option. At this point in time, pretty sure it still was a better option.

Get back to me when 3rd or 4th gear has no teeth, I might change my mind.

Last edited by chance91; 06-21-2010 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 06-21-2010, 09:44 PM   #54
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My car felt like absolute dog **** daily driving it to work on the 6 speed and 4.10 torsen + act 6 puck clutch. It was absolutely unbearable. Sit in traffic for an hour or two on that setup and you want to drive your car into the nearest wall.

Now to be fair, the 6 puck was one of the bigger reasons it was such a PITA, but even on the same clutch but on a 5 speed + open rear my car is much much smoother now.

If I blow the 5 I'll get another for 150-200.

Thought seeing how many on here are making big power on 5 speeds I think I have a decent chance of it surviving at least a year or two.
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Old 06-22-2010, 09:40 AM   #55
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Not disagreeing with you guys but I have had many, many cars and find the 6 speed in the MSM to be delightful. Mine shifts like a Rolex.

Ever drive a Porsche? My Carrera shifted like a Scwhinn, my C5 only slightly better. One of the downfalls of both cars, is that they don't like to be in traffic. They are meant to run up through the gears and get to speed and stay there. 6 speeds are not ideal if you are in stop and go traffic. They are meant to be at speed and give you the proper RPM range for passing or pulling yourself out of a corner etc. If you are in stop and go traffic I would opt for a 5 speed for the sake of your sanity and the life of your wrist.

I love this gear box, but certainly agree that it is geared wayy too short. I would enjoy it much more if I didnt have to shift into second 1.004 seconds into my drive. That can be fixed by a rear gear change. I think highly boosted cars especially need to change the rear gear. Then you have a great tranny for track days and open roads. You gain a bit of speed on the top end as well, with a slight boost in mileage.

I confess, I didnt know people were having any more problems with them than the 5 speed. I'd hate to pay for a rebuild, but I would.
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Old 06-22-2010, 11:06 AM   #56
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Also did you guys notice how many 6 speeds have been breaking lately? Granted, they are non-MSM but still.
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Old 06-22-2010, 11:09 AM   #57
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Also did you guys notice how many 6 speeds have been breaking lately? Granted, they are non-MSM but still.
Each one of those has been whored on though.
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Old 06-22-2010, 11:30 AM   #58
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Well yeah, but isn't that the whole point of getting a 6 speed? Because its bullet proof? Or so we thought anyway
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Old 06-22-2010, 12:00 PM   #59
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The MSM is a bargain. I ran 230whp on mine with stock injectors and ecu with some resistor hacks. The silver bilsteins are a great shock with some higher rated springs they actually ride smoother. Switch those 17's for 15's and profit.

Bad
ECU
Wheels

Good
Valve Cover
Oil Cap
Shocks (silver Bilsteins)
Sways (eibach)
torsen type 2 with better lock up characteristics
beefy axels
abs works great with good brakes and crap tires
aero
mazdaspeed exhaust
6speed
sport brakes
99 head
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Old 06-22-2010, 01:19 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chance91 View Post



Before you make such a dumb, generalized statement, you should realize everyone's exerpience with the MSM 6-speed is different, dude. You do realize we have some synchro and shift gate problems in that box right from the getgo, right? I've had my car for 40k miles now, and when I first got it the synchro's were just starting to suck, by this year the car was just a pain in the *** to shift. Its not the worst manual I've ever driven, and I didn't really miss shifts, but there is a lot more effort and no positive feel to that stupid trans. I'd say it feels like its 15yrs older than it really is, like my older Audi or chevy. So, I figurd instead of rebuilding it, a $150 5-speed was a better option. At this point in time, pretty sure it still was a better option.

Get back to me when 3rd or 4th gear has no teeth, I might change my mind.

Do you realize that there are TWO 6-spd turbo Miatas in my garage? The MSM having 60k on it and the shifting is a smooth as silk. Fluids never been changed, and the car (my gf's) has all the bolt-on mods...stock hp went out the door many miles ago. Mine has been beat to hell and back and is just fine. Driving the 6spd + 4:1 back to back with the 6psd + 3:9 reveals the night and day difference how the gearing feels. I've killed 2 or 3 5spd transmissions around the 190-200rwhp mark..and I've treated my 6spd the same way and it takes the abuse and asks for more. Sure the 5spd can be picked up cheap, but why leave your *** out to dry and risk that ****** tanking at the most unconventional time? Did you bother to try different fluids or replace the bushings?

I really think a lot of it comes down to how people have been treating the 6spd transmissions. Also, replacing a part that is known to be robust with a weaker one makes little sense to me...I mean, would you buy a condom because it is proven to keep you from having a firedick but has less feel, or a cheap condom that is known to fail but feels better?

BTW- I am currently borrowing a 94 and the 5spd in that thing is really pissing me off. It sucks. Not gearing, but effort is way too high.
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