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Old 02-15-2010, 05:21 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Turbo View Post
I have always wanted to build a RWD 4G powered car. Never could bring myself to build a Mitsu truck or Starion/Conquest, expecially since it has been done so many times. I like the fact that it hasnt been done in the Miata yet as well.
I cant wait to see how this turns out for you, but along the lines of "hasn't been done in a miata yet" i will have to try to get pics for you the next time i goto the track. Here in orlando there is a 4g63 (from a starion) miata that is stupid fast. Its a sick swap and i wish you the best.
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:02 AM   #22
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I hated my DSM, but this looks interesting.
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:12 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Slid3rMonk3y View Post
... Here in orlando there is a 4g63 (from a starion) miata that is stupid fast....
And how does it do on the road course?

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...The car itself will be a stripped down road course car....
If anything the goal/intent for the swap is what makes it unique. Looking forward to progress/updates.
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:59 AM   #24
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I loved my DSM. Even after I had to have a friend drive me home from school b.c my talon didn't want to start.
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:43 PM   #25
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Thank you for that warning.
Thought that would be fun to say!

I am truly an open minded person and always willing to listen to what others have to say. I have an unle that has always told me, God gave you two eyes and two ears and one mouth for a reason. I also know that not everyone is right and that I wont agree with what everyone has to say or suggest. But, the reason I am always willing to listen to others is because I am not always right and dont know everything. I dont pretend to either.
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:51 PM   #26
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You're going through the trouble of a motor swap why not just use an lsx?
For many reasons. I dont want to do something others have already done. I am not looking to follow someone else's step-by-step directions. I am also wanting to keep the car a turbo 4 cylinder and make just a much, actually more, power than the V8 swaps are making. IMO, the best motor to do that with is the 4G6X motor. My thoughts are, the money I would spend on turboo'ing the original Mazda engine or will be much better spent, power wise, on a 4G6X motor. More bang for the buck. There are other reasons, like me history and passion for the 4G motor, that also motivate me to do this swap. They all add up to taking this route. It will be one hell of a car and like no other.
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Old 02-15-2010, 01:05 PM   #27
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well for one (even though it's overkill) you can make 500whp with a stock block 4g63t. and 2. it's way cheaper than an lsx swap, especially if your doing the fab work yourself like i imagine this guy is planning to. 3. turbo sounds from a hi-powered version at 8-9k rpm equal or better the sound of an lsx. (opinion). and 4. it sounds like he wants to be unique. only problem with that is that it usually negates #2.

good luck! if this goes well, my poor gvr4 may have a longer wait before it's on the road again. i've got a jdm 4g63 sitting in my garage with all the parts for greatness. tial wastegate, greddy intercooler and bov, turbonetics t3/t4, keydiver chipped eprom ecu, z06 maf and translator, ported head, crower ti. retainers/springs, web 276 cams, etc....
You obviously understand where I am coming from. I do think I will get a better bang for the buck and that the motor will be strong and reliable. IMO, and based on my many years of history, the motor is not the unreliable part of a DSM. I have had more than a hand full of DSMs, including a GVR-4, and know how to get power out of these easily. The stock internals can handle 450 hp easily. The stock crank can do anything you want. There have been a number of 1000+ hp motors with stock cranks. There will be some custom fab to make this happen and I do plan on doing just about all of it myself. Once I am done, I will truly have a one of a kind and maybe put together a car that others will want to build as well.

As for you, dont take your focus off of that GVR-4. Those are becoming quite rare and I would like to know that another one is back up and running. My old one is up for sale and I have been tempted to go buy it back but, I have enough projects at the moment. When I got warehouse/shop space a few years back all it did is allow me to get into too many things at once. I am focused on two right now. I am putting together a "street" tuned DSM, 1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD, which will have about 500-550 hp. I will be building this Miata at the same time. I have just about everything I need for my Talon exept tires, ECU, injectors, exhaust, FMIC and pipes, and wastegate. The Miata has plenty left to go, obviously, but is where most of my money and time will go this year(s).
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Old 02-15-2010, 01:21 PM   #28
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Fair enough, but if you think a high powered 4 trumps the sound of an lsx.. you're hearing the wrong ones.. The wrong tone..

Question is how long is this 500hp budget built 4g63 going to last? If you're worried about cost and can fab stuff yourself, but not worried about weight simply use an LQ series motor with an iron block. LQ9's can be had from salvage yards for under a grand, seen them for 3 - 500$ on craigslist before. For reference, the LQ9 is the 6 liter from the Caddy, 385# torque.

Defiantly subscribing to this thread and look forward to updates. Similar to the 2jz I wouldn't use the motor myself but give props for being different.
A 500 hp 4G motor can be quite reliable and last a long time. My GVR-4 had over 450 hp and I drove it for abotu 3 years before selling it. And that was on a 100k+ mile stock engine. Now, I did go through 4 (four) transmissions in that same time period, but never had to do anything to the engine to keep it running. My FWD Eclipse put out about 325 hp on the stock turbo, IC, engine with a few bacis upgrades. That was my first DSM. Then, the drag car put out just under 900 hp to the wheels and the only trouble the motor gave us was a blown headgasket when still running a Mitsubishi head gasket. We swapped to a Cometic, at the track in about half an hour, and that fixed that problem. But keeping a transmission and drivetrain parts together on that car was simply impossible. We had already spent about $15k on the drivetrain and we either needed to spent $15-20 more or swap to a RWD set-up to keep the project going. Instead, it was retired. I have had 9-10 DSMs over the years and all with plenty of power. I could always know, if the tranny would hold together through the launch, that I could out pull almost any V8 I pulled up next to on the street.

The Miata is a desire to build a RWD, 4G powered street car that will handle well. Being a roadster is a big plus as well. A huge plus fo rme is that it is a combination that nobody has done before. That is a huge driving factor for me. To me, a V8 swap is just too easy and too many people have, and will continue to, do that swap. I love the sounds of a well built and tuned LS or LQ but, I also love the sound of a well built and well tuned 4G.

As for budget, I am always looking the cheapest way to do things right but never looking to do things cheaply. Does that make since? I am not looking to waste money but I am not looking to cut corners if it means the car will be crap. I will do it right.
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Old 02-15-2010, 01:27 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Slid3rMonk3y View Post
I cant wait to see how this turns out for you, but along the lines of "hasn't been done in a miata yet" i will have to try to get pics for you the next time i goto the track. Here in orlando there is a 4g63 (from a starion) miata that is stupid fast. Its a sick swap and i wish you the best.
Well, since the Starion didnt have a 4G63 I am going to assume that it still hasnt been done yet. I look forward to seeing the pics still. Even if one has been done, although I cant find any record of it, I am still going with the swap. Still going to be a one of a kind and fun as hell.
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Old 02-15-2010, 01:46 PM   #30
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**** you man, I've always wanted to do a 4g63 swap, that's my favorite engine. I've even talked about a 4g63 swap to Miata but I do not possess the time, money, or skill.

Good luck with this man! I wish I could do it!
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Old 02-15-2010, 02:23 PM   #31
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My only experience with these maybe doesnt count, my brother had a twin turbo stealth, epic fail.
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Old 02-15-2010, 03:11 PM   #32
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My only experience with these maybe doesnt count, my brother had a twin turbo stealth, epic fail.
yes, your right, epic fail. only cars considered "dsm's" are the talon,eclipse, laser, and galant vr4 since it shares the same drivetrain. the sealth is none of the above.

elesjuan, thank you for saving us the paragraph's. im sure that iron block v8 would have made a great track miata. as far as 500hp stock block 4g63's last, i don't know, years? surely as long as any of the ls1 racers i know (nasa time trial and st class racers) mine is only 430whp but it has 140k and has run great for 5 years of street, highway, and track duty. now my tranny, well, it's changed out annually, but the op won't have to worry about that.
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Old 02-15-2010, 03:32 PM   #33
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I don't understand the litany of "why not just put in an LSX" that seems to pop up any time someone wants to do a different swap. It's that kind of attitude that kept people believing the world was flat for a thousand years.

Looking forward to how this progresses!
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Old 02-15-2010, 03:38 PM   #34
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Yah seriously
the LS is great and everything but its not neccesarily the ultime for everything

Im pretty sure you have more power potential with a turbo 4G63 than a NA LSx...


edit:
yeeeeeah...



hahahahahaha
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Old 02-16-2010, 11:15 AM   #35
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My only experience with these maybe doesnt count, my brother had a twin turbo stealth, epic fail.
Not the same car, although a turbo charged Mitsubishi vehicle. I too had a Stealth R/T TT and sold it to get married and spend two weeks in Hawaii. I was going to do a 3.0-3.5 swap and run twin T3/T4's. I had so many parts sitting around ready to go and decided to get married instead. What was I thinking?! LIve my wife and will never be able to replace Hawaii trip but I do miss taking onthat project. To this day no 3KGT/Stealth guy has completed a 3.5 lt swap. Its not really that hard of a swap since almost all the 3.5 DOHC parts can be had by Hyundai in some Sonotas. I still have the required part numbers saved somewhere. Mitsubishi only offered SOHC versions of the motor.
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Old 02-16-2010, 12:53 PM   #36
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Look forward to the build, take lots of pictures!
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:06 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Turbo View Post
Not the same car, although a turbo charged Mitsubishi vehicle. I too had a Stealth R/T TT and sold it to get married and spend two weeks in Hawaii. I was going to do a 3.0-3.5 swap and run twin T3/T4's. I had so many parts sitting around ready to go and decided to get married instead. What was I thinking?! LIve my wife and will never be able to replace Hawaii trip but I do miss taking onthat project. To this day no 3KGT/Stealth guy has completed a 3.5 lt swap. Its not really that hard of a swap since almost all the 3.5 DOHC parts can be had by Hyundai in some Sonotas. I still have the required part numbers saved somewhere. Mitsubishi only offered SOHC versions of the motor.
My bro still has the car, the engine failed due to the earlier model oil starvation problems it had, unfortunately it is a 5 speed car though. So, if you link me the info on the swap, i would gladly send it his way to see what he would do, although he is preoccupied wth his z. If not, im sure i could get it cheaply...
I look forward to more pics though.
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:26 PM   #38
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Another reason this is so cool is the nature of the power band on a 4G63 with a moderate turbo. My 93 AWD Laser just used an E316G and made somewhere in the high 200s WHP. The power came on strong at about 3K more or less. With an LSX you can easaly get more torque than the chassis can really use at low speeds and slow corners. With a 4G63 you can run something like a 50 trim or GT3071 based turbo and get a bit more progressive TQ delivery at low revs.

Not saying the 4G63 is the superior engine (thats a big can of worms) but I am definitely saying it has some points in its favor for a Miata thats not going to wear 275 width r comps at all times. The LSX might truly 'have more potential' and 'not need a turbo to make power' and 'have replacement parts at every street corner for a dollar' and all those other tired *** cliche points, but a 4G63ed NA is going to be pretty scary fast for cheap if done right.
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Old 02-16-2010, 02:23 PM   #39
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Look forward to the build, take lots of pictures!
+1, Good luck, hopefully we can see updates soon.
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Old 02-16-2010, 06:21 PM   #40
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Another reason this is so cool is the nature of the power band on a 4G63 with a moderate turbo. My 93 AWD Laser just used an E316G and made somewhere in the high 200s WHP. The power came on strong at about 3K more or less. With an LSX you can easaly get more torque than the chassis can really use at low speeds and slow corners. With a 4G63 you can run something like a 50 trim or GT3071 based turbo and get a bit more progressive TQ delivery at low revs.

Not saying the 4G63 is the superior engine (thats a big can of worms) but I am definitely saying it has some points in its favor for a Miata thats not going to wear 275 width r comps at all times. The LSX might truly 'have more potential' and 'not need a turbo to make power' and 'have replacement parts at every street corner for a dollar' and all those other tired *** cliche points, but a 4G63ed NA is going to be pretty scary fast for cheap if done right.
I think this is by far the best reason anyone in this thread has mentioned, aside from being different and having parts on hand already.

That dyno chart someone else posted though, unless you're building a dedicated drag car... would be a pretty useless motor.
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