NA & NB Miata Hood Louvers - Gauging Interest
 

Everyone has probably seen the cooling thread in Race Prep(my favorite section) where Emilio outlined the elements needed to keep a miata nice and cool for anything from highway cruising on a hot day to track abuse.

There was a post about some hood louvers which I thought were a pretty cool concept - they ship flat, and you assemble them in a couple minutes when you receive them.

I thought it would be cool to take that louver concept and run with it to design a set that is intended for the Miata hood, NA & NB, with proper placement.

I mentioned the idea and there were a few guys who expressed interest right off the bat. I decided the best thing to do is start a separate thread, and see if there really is enough interest to make this happen.

I started designing and producing some parts along with a partner (Rokomis on this forum) under the name Singulär Motorsports, which you guys will see hitting the market soon :)

For most parts, we have things lined up to be sold through a larger vendor who is already a big site supporter here. However, for parts that would be limited runs or if demand is questionable, it would make sense to first gauge interest with a group buy.

If enough people are interested in these louvers, I’ll become an authorized vendor for the site and start a group buy thread.
We can also discuss design changes to the louvers as well so we have a design that is exactly what everyone wants.

-Ryan

Here is where the concept sits currently

NA and NB designs will differ as the pressure maps are unique for each.
For the NA, I’ve designed a three-hole set up, front edge of the holes sit just behind the radiator position:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1405635573

For the NB, with different underhood bracing locations and different areas with the highest negative pressure than the NA, I think the best placement will be here (where I added the blue lines):

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1405635573

I’ve also come up with a way to make a cutting template that can ship with the louvres to take the guesswork out of recreating the cut shapes in your own hood, so that would be included.

Please feel free to express your interest and/or input.

-Ryan

I would be interested. What kind of price point do you think you're looking at?

You have my attention.

It's a little early to say, waterjet costs are based in large part by how long it takes the machine to cut your part, and these are quite intricate (and that's not the only cost to take into account)

The 'kit' I'm envisioning would include the aluminum louvers, cut templates, and hardware. I would put an estimate right around $100 to be on the safe side.

The appeal with these in my view is it's a miata-specific part (should fit and look better than universal stuff), designed based on the pressure maps of our hoods, and comes in at a price well under an aftermarket vented hood.

I'm going a different vent route for the hood but if some other vents happen to happen then you've got my money fur sure.

Trying to picture this in my head. Just behind the radiator would be an inch or two in front of the rear edge of the pop-ups, right? Looks like there'd be plenty of room on the NA for both aerocatches (installed right way or wrong way) and these vents.

Plenty of room. At least as far as the NA design is right now, the front edge of these would be ~9" back from the front centerline of the hood.

-Ryan

Any thought on making them smaller and only take up the frontmost "section" (not spanning the reinforcement)?

I don't have a cooling problem (to little power and not hot enough climate), but have there been any testing what the minimum effective area is (the first sq inches makes the biggest effect I assume)?

There are always those who want to cut as little as possible and still get a big benefit.

Making the same for the top of the front fenders is not that easy, it won't ship flat at least :).

Sometimes the sacrifice has to be made ;-). The NB vent placement is based on the pressure map of the hood and leverage the regions with the highest negative pressure. Compared to the NA, the NB hood has much larger areas of negative pressure along the side. A smaller vent would likely still have some benefit, but bigger is almost always better :-)

I threw those blue outlines on the NB hood just to illustrate the general area, but in actuality the hole would be smaller than that;

That "frontmost" section on its own is actually not ideal - I looked at that first - the front 2" or so of it is actually forwards of the radiator, so the hole should start at about the middle of that section.

Also, the louvre piece will bend unidirectionally front to back, but not side to side, so its placement needs to be in an area that doesn't have drastic horizontal contour changes. There is a sudden curvature change on the NB hood near the sides which I'd want to avoid, the blue line I drew actually crosses over that, so what I'm envisioning would actually be narrower than that.

Pictures illustrate much better than words, I'll draw it up when I get home tonight but it would actually be a bit smaller than that initial pic.

-Ryan

I'd be interested in these as well. Around $100 sounds ok to me!

interested

Sounds like a great option to me. The stock hoods are usually lighter than the aftermarket ones, so if you can make a functional, yet semi-aesthetically pleasing vent shape, you should have a winning product on your hands.

Interested

I'd buy but fear I will want something before you get them to market as I am ready NOW!

Dude, where were you when I bought that GT500 vent and hacked up my spare hood to fit it all together last year? :vash: These could have saved me a lot of work.

:giggle:

But seriously, even though I'm no longer in direct need of these, I might still be interested in a set (depending on price and final product details). After all, I've still got a spare hood.

In for superior cooling.

Edit: NA here

It'd also be helpful to get an idea of which chassis, NA or NB, people would be more interested. If you can, please post which one you'd be interested in buying!

likely in for these

Interested in NB. I'm considering the GT500 as well, but I like this more.

Here is a more accurate representation of what I have in mind for the NB:
Forward most point is just behind the radiator, it follows the contour in the hood, interferes with a minimal amount of the underhood structure, and lies in the lowest pressure zones of the NB hood.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1405661375

I've taken a lot more of the hood bracing out than that in the past and not had any issues with hood flex.

That's exactly my thinking. The stock hood is quite good. Heck, even on my turbo car, I built everything on an oem hood because the only better option is several hundreds of dollars for full carbon to save a few pounds, and I still would've had to cut that up.

In a nut shell the idea here is:
- specifically for the miata hood's shape and airflow
- works on any factory hood
- retains hood rigidity

With those goals in mind, the result should look like it was designed for our hoods - not just a universal rectangle or something grafted on from some other manufacturer.

-Ryan

Well, I'm interested to see what you come up with. If it looks hot, I'm in.

Has anyone had any problems with daily driving with a vented hood? The only problem I foresee is with rain, while the car is sitting. Feasibly, I just need to relocate any electrical connections, should they lie beneath the vents.

I'm in for a nb, and would it be necessary to post up ideas of other manufacturer's louvers to pick a style that would look best to oem as if Mazda made it?

In for the NB...and $100 sounds like a good price point.

The best way to install aerocatches on an NA is to remove the front rubber hood bumpers and use those holes for the metal rods.

I'll take an NB set. Where shall I PayPal the money? :naughty:

I am also interested in the response to the rain issue.

In for an NA set pending response to rain question.

I've had a hood vent(GT500) on my car for the past 8 months, albeit in SoCal, without issues. If the car is sitting when it's raining outside, the car cover itself generally keeps enough water out. If I wash the car I usually throw some saran wrap over it with some blue tape to keep water from just pouring it.

I would like to see how some of these turn out!

In for NA.

I'm getting ready to just cut holes in my hood and put mesh in the holes.

If you can make these happen before next spring, and for less than $150, I am a guaranteed buy. I would actually give you my money now to pre-order if that would help.

I am interested in the NA fitment.

I'm interested in a set for a NB

As far as hood scoops in weather go, I ran one for years when I daily drove my red NA and never had any issues. Sean is more cautious than I am, I washed the car, left it parked in the rain, etc. and never covered the vents or anything.
The important part is not having the opening above the valve cover, some vented hoods have holes right above it which is no good. Of course, I have this in mind and the vent placement doesn't look like it will be directly above anything that it shouldn't be.

Re: mesh vs. louvers, I've run mesh and switched to louvers or just a big opening for many vents because the mesh blocks a significant amount of flow. Also, louvers serve the second purpose of creating lower pressure just behind each 'blade' which aids in extracting the air, which mesh and other styles don't do.

Thanks for your interest guys, I'm very encouraged! :) We aren't going to collect any money yet. Working on becoming a vendor right now, and once I've got at least preliminary proofs in hand we'll start a group buy where there will be a partial deposit to get the ball rolling.

-Ryan

Not to derail the thread too much but you mentioned you also had other products in the pipeline. What are they if you don't mind me asking?

I am in the middle of heavily modifying a lot of aspects of my car and if there are new products coming relatively soon I would be interested to know now so I can judge if I should wait.

Ryan - As excited as I am about what we're working on, I can't get ahead of myself. We aren't very far off from the first couple things becoming available though, so you shouldn't have to wait very long.

One of the primary rules I've set for myself is to focus on only a couple things at most at one time instead of getting spread out too thin on too many things in development. I want to focus on getting a part just how I want it, then I can move on to the next one. We have a couple things very close to finished and several more on the drawing board, but they'll be announced/released only once I'm totally satisfied with each one.

-Ryan

Hi, id like to see the product and maybe intersted in South Africa. However ive been contemplating the Nissan GTR35 vents which is a NACA duct tried and tested. Thats about as nice a duct as you gonna get and probably as effective as well? food for thought? just my :2cents: their expensive as hell though

A not so serious suggestion:
Make the vents out of the hood itself (only the "prop" part needs fabricating, the template can be printed)?

Not serious since the hood Alu is thin; cutting it with control is not easy, it will break in the twisted parts (over time at least).

But if it would have been easy to do it would have been elegant, not even needing paint :)

If you're talking about the R35 GTR, the naca ducts on that hood intake air, they do not vent air. They are there for the purpose of blowing cooler air over the turbo area, not to increase effectiveness of the radiator or to reduce under-hood pressure (the two goals of a hood vent/louver)

I see what you're getting at ;) but besides the downsides of being far more complex and very expensive to package/ship, the nice thing about these louvres is that the 'twisted' section hides underneath the hood material. The fins of the louver are all that are visible from the top, which makes for a nice clean appearance. That wouldn't be achievable if the louvers were in the same layer as the hood.

-Ryan

Interested.

In for NA.

In for a NB set.

Looked at the other thread and was slightly disappointed you didn't post any updates to it. Then I saw this. :party:

Interested for NA set

I have some preliminary louvers coming from the waterjetter probably later this week. Most likely not the final shape, but will be something to get my hands on and play with.

In the mean time, we are in the process of becoming authorized vendors and I have a set of pressure gauges on the way to do some specific testing - these louvers will ultimately be based around what works best according to the data for our cars, not just what should work in theory :)

-Ryan

That is product development like I like it. I'd be in for a NA set!

Interested for NA.

I'm at stock power level with no cooling mods or ducting, but I would be interested in a NB set if properly executed, with a proven decrease in underhood pressure. At least in theory, these should always increase cooling ability on street cars and track cars alike (unless car is going backwards at high speeds :party:), although track users with ducting would reap more rewards, correct?

On a side note, will the louvers be protruding the OML of the factory hood? I am asking because this would likely affect the pressure map of the hood, in some manner or another.

I need to start slowly buying things as they come to the market. Keep up the development!

Paypal ready, for NA.

Better be available in chrome to fit with my style bar.

Sarcasm? Since these will be shipped flat and require manhandling to install it seems like uncoated would be the best option. It would also keep the price and inventory down. I don't think chrome, powdercoat, or even good paint would hold up to the twisting to get the louvers into position.

It was definitely sarcasm...

Go ahead and bring the NB version to market first. That'll give the NA guys a little more time to save up. ;)

Yes, it was. I feel bad now. :(

Commit to buy a set or 2 and it should be forgotten ;)

http://procrasti-nation.eu/wp-conten...e-my-money.jpg

HNNNGGGGGGGGGGG

I'm in. Paypal address stat.

I'm in so cal, no care.

Ha! Just joined the forum because of this thread and the potential to jump in on a set of well thought-out hood vents for the NA... Please produce these and take our $$$.

Need help pulling some under hood heat away from this aluminum lump:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1406375467

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1406375467

I've almost cut "H"s into my my hood a few times to make louvers and gourney flaps, but I'm not that experienced with metalworking so I don't know how well that'd work. To clarify, your proposed vents would have flat pieces of metal connected to the overall piece by small tabs. The larger part would be bent down to form a louver and the smaller part would be bent up to form a gourney flap (which by nature rises above the hood around it) to aid the louver behind it. Thats what it looks like from your CAD drawing. Is that about right? I was a little confused from what you said here:

Like this but in a different spot and with more front and stuff?

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1406510823

It was ok. The paint all cracked and shitty at the crease but honestly I didnt give a shit and knew that it would and I did nothing to attempt to mitigate it like use the heat gun or go slow. Its mildly difficult, not too bad. And speaking of rain. That car got left outside in the torrential downpours today while I did the timing belt on my dad's miata and it started up fine and shit. I wouldnt worry about rain in through the vents unless you can see the top of the valve cover through the vents, then you could worry about water pooling in the spark plug wells. But nothing else in the bay really gives a shit about rain, I mean think about how much water passes through the radiator when you drive in the rain.