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Old 12-29-2007, 07:51 PM   #1
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Default New motor here... and clutch pics.

Picked up my "new" 200k mile motor this morning. It took about 2hrs to complete removing the current motor. I didn't **** around with the tranny this time... I just left the top 2 bolts in and then got under the car and held it up while a buddy got the last bolts, and then lowered onto my chest and then to the ground. The motor came out with no issues, I simply unbolted the motor mount brackets from the engine.

The clutch pics have me worried. You can see on the flywheel side it appears that all the contact is on the inner part of the disc, while on the PP side, all the wear is on the outer edge. The kevlar in those areas is dark and looks like what I would normally describe as "glazed". You can also see on the PP there's a place where the metal looks burned?

My plan with this motor is to drive it at wastegate pressure until the other motor is ready... which means the Spec will probably be fine and I can swap in a new ACT when I do the new motor. I was all about the 6-puck until it turned into a $160 proposition and seems like wasted money... but if the new motor has great compression and I want to turn the boost up on it, the Spec won't hold. Ahhhh.... decisions.
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New motor here... and clutch pics.-dsc00742-medium-.jpg   New motor here... and clutch pics.-dsc00743-medium-.jpg   New motor here... and clutch pics.-dsc00749-medium-.jpg   New motor here... and clutch pics.-dsc00750-medium-.jpg  
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Old 12-29-2007, 07:53 PM   #2
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I'm halfway through cleaning the "new" motor. I hope nobody thought I was going to install something with 200k miles worth of filth on it
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New motor here... and clutch pics.-dsc00751-medium-.jpg   New motor here... and clutch pics.-dsc00752-medium-.jpg  
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Old 12-29-2007, 08:28 PM   #3
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your PP was applying pressure unevenly...look at the wear marks.
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Old 12-29-2007, 08:50 PM   #4
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Ya Sam - You have a BAD PEEPEE .
The flywheel has a BAD Heat spot on it also.
Am I confused or did you have problems with a head on a motor that wasn't sealing properly to the block?
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Old 12-29-2007, 09:48 PM   #5
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those clutches suck. I firmly believe there are only 2 usable clutch materials...stock organics and metal.
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Old 12-29-2007, 10:06 PM   #6
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that clutch is fucked. the pp might be salvagable with machine work. i think the burn marks at top are a high spot that would get machined off, and it might be fine. but simply replacing it might make me feel more comfortable about it. my stock clutch that i ran at nearly 200 whp for a while didn't look as bad as yours does.

send those pics to Spec. they probably won't do anything, but they should be ashamed.
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Old 12-29-2007, 10:20 PM   #7
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looks to me like the pp ring isn't flat- those two burn marks are the high spots - a lot of load in those two areas on engagement. I think I'm going to put my machinists edge on every pp from here on out.
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Old 12-30-2007, 12:25 AM   #8
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Interesting, don't they use a stock Exedy PP? Not offence to Sam, but could installation have been an issue?

Well this certainly explains why Sam was having issues with his clutch.
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Old 12-30-2007, 01:21 AM   #9
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WOW... the clutch is pretty bad huh?
I can't see how the install could be screwed up.
There are 6 bolts for the flywheel all torqued properly... and there are 5 or 6 for the PP all torqued properly. I can't see how I could have messed up. What are the typical ways of mis-performing a clutch install that could have caused what we're seeing here?

I've always planned to contact Spec when I opened it up... and the pictures tell an interesting tale it seems. I'm definitely not putting it back in now. I guess it's time for ACT.
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Old 12-30-2007, 02:24 AM   #10
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Neo got one of those F1 clutches from gripforce on ebay...said its held up fine for over a year...cheap too...might be worth checking into.
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Old 12-30-2007, 08:42 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
I guess it's time for ACT.
Carolina Clutch? http://www.carolinaclutch.com/ShowItem/101373.aspx

I need to order one this week also. I was going to offer to tag team on shipping, but just saw that they have free shipping this week. Check with them and see if we can get a better price for ordering two.
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Old 12-30-2007, 10:15 AM   #12
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how's the flywheel look?

edit, n/m bottom pic
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Old 12-30-2007, 10:32 AM   #13
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May as well add my stupid story here:

I pulled my motor a few weeks ago to find a source of noise and generally check things out. With 50k+ on the turbo, clutch, etc, and wanting to clean up a few things on my pipe routing, I went at it.

First surprise was the clutch. I have an RPS Sport with a six puck sprung disc on a Fidanza 1.8 flywheel. It always held well, but chattered in reverse, and lately started making some strange noises.

Come to find out that in my haste to assemble everything under the car, I didn't notice they had sold me a 1.6 disc for a 1.8 clutch and flywheel set-up.

As I said, it always locked up fine, but now the disc is shot, springs are falling out, and I have a very even 1.6 diameter ring worn into the pressure plate and Fidanza wear plates.

Sucks when you don't pay attention!
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Old 12-30-2007, 12:01 PM   #14
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My stoopid clutch story: I assembled everything only to find out the reason the clutch wouldn't release was because the bore on the diaphragm springs were too big (manufacturing error) and the t/o bearing ring fit through the middle.

Another issue with your clutch could be the machining of the flywheel. Both the friction plate/surface and the pedestals should be machined by the same amount. If one pedestal is not the same, it could produce a similar wear pattern.

All the parts (from the pics) look as though they're still usable. But you need to figure out where the problem is. Put a machinist's edge on the pp friction ring, check the springs for a uniform profile to discount any biased engagement of the ring. Lay the edge across the pedestals and then measure to the friction plate/surface. Measure material thickness on the disk.

IF the material on the disk is worn more that what it looks like, you can take it to a clutch rebuilder and have new material installed. It's cheaper than buying a new disk, and your hub still looks new. You can choose your material, but beware in upgrading to cerametallic if you're hub isn't worthy of the duty.
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Old 12-30-2007, 12:56 PM   #15
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http://www.prostreetonline.com/pnsku/zm1-xtmm.asp
Just $344 for the XTmm at ProStreetOnline.
I just sent them an email regarding a group buy... maybe we can open it up to others on the forum... waiting to hear something back.

The XTD and FI stgIII's both look like identical 6-pucks and advertise to hold the power I'm looking for. They're both about $160 shipped. It's tempting... but for roughly twice that, I can get the ACT that I know should last me a LONG time.

I'm probably gonna take my block down this week and get it worked on... so I'll take the clutch parts with me and have them look at'em.
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Old 12-30-2007, 01:50 PM   #16
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sam, i'd go ahead and get the 1.8 assembly, even though it weighs more and should be way overkill for your goals. then you'll never have any issues, even if you want to put in a bigger turbo. my 1.8 hd is a really nice clutch.
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Old 12-30-2007, 03:04 PM   #17
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Brian says his F1 STIII, has clutchnet all over it. with that said, the blue PP is OEM replacement, so the only reason it works good is the disc itself. It would be better off coupled with a better PP.

give clutchnet a call, they help you pick something. I'd go with a red PP and a organic disc.
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Old 12-30-2007, 07:40 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourwhls View Post
Carolina Clutch? http://www.carolinaclutch.com/ShowItem/101373.aspx

I need to order one this week also. I was going to offer to tag team on shipping, but just saw that they have free shipping this week. Check with them and see if we can get a better price for ordering two.

They might do that, I bought from these guys local for my 1.6 XT stuff, they are from my hometown...great guys, small outfit, and know their stuff pretty well. Competitively priced too.
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Old 12-30-2007, 07:53 PM   #19
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Good advice all... this whole clutch thing has got to be the hardest automotive decision I've made. We're only talking about $350 on the high-side... but for some reason it's taking most of my spare processing power to mull it over.

Had my first "Oh ****" of the engine install today. I forgot I was going to have to drill the pan again. CRAP! At least I'll have it done before the new clutch arrives, so no time lost... I just wish I could have dropped the new motor in today.

Another question. I pulled the intake manifold off the new motor and put my old one on instead and re-used the intake manifold gasket so I didn't have to **** with the fuel rail... and it was terribly dirty. Any issues possibly with re-using the gasket? I've re-used the exhaust manifold gasket about 10 times.
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Old 12-30-2007, 08:12 PM   #20
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my intake gasket didnt like being reused. it was perfectly flat and couldn't hold a seal (CLT or air).
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