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Old 08-25-2008, 12:52 AM   #1
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Default Power for LC-1?

For those of you that have LC-1 wideband O2 sensors, where are you getting your power from? I wired the unit to get power from the 12v switched power at the stock O2 sensor connector. The problem is that it drops power during cranking. So the LC-1 resets itself when you crank. I read on the Innovative forum a while back that this can cause it to get jacked up and give bad readings.

I just got the car started on an AEM EMS and the exhaust smells pig rich, but the wideband input says it is dead lean. Not sure what to think at this point. Can't get the car to go much above idle. I think I'll pull the plugs tomorrow and see what they think about the rich/lean situation.

If anybody has a AEM EMS cal file using an AEM map sensor, I'd love to see it.
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:56 AM   #2
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Mine gets power from the blue connector on the drivers side of the engine bay, you know where you would hook up power for the timing light.
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:00 AM   #3
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Is that switched? If so, that would solve a lot of problems.

Thanks!
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:27 AM   #4
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Yes it is switched. My UEGO is getting power from there.
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:40 AM   #5
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I have an add-a-fuse on the engine fuse in the cockpit. Provides power when car is on and cranking, and not acc. Same place I tapped for MS too. Quite nice since it is inside the car.
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:49 AM   #6
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I simply built a new wiring harness to run the motor and all its peripherals.
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:57 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compy View Post
I have an add-a-fuse on the engine fuse in the cockpit. Provides power when car is on and cranking, and not acc. Same place I tapped for MS too. Quite nice since it is inside the car.
Same here. I am using a fuse tap at the radio fuse location. It is off during cranking.
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Old 08-25-2008, 11:16 AM   #8
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mine gets power directly off my MS boomslang harness
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Old 08-25-2008, 11:17 AM   #9
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Dont use the blue plug under the hood. Its not hot during cranking, which will cause the LC1 to reset itself and throw E-8 codes. Ask me how I know. You must use a switched 12v that is hot in cranking. Example, the door buzzer power under the dash.
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Old 08-25-2008, 05:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
Dont use the blue plug under the hood. Its not hot during cranking, which will cause the LC1 to reset itself and throw E-8 codes.
Wait a second... Did you get E-8 codes right away after cranking, or after a few minutes of driving? Reason is I had mine set up to where it WAS hot during cranking and I was having inconsistent calibration problems. Innovate tech support said I should connect it so that it WAS NOT hot during cranking and that would fix the problem. I get E-8 codes (overheat) after several minutes of driving on a regular basis. I have a copper heat sink on it, though it is not as big as Innovate specifies in the instructions.
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Old 08-25-2008, 05:32 PM   #11
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Um, you want power to the LC-1 in the RUN and START positions. I promise. Mine used to go off every time I started and it sucked. Now I can let the LC-1 warm up, fire up the motor cold, and see if it's lean or rich right after starting it. Makes tuning stuff easy, and if you stall and fire it right back up during a datalog, you don't skew the numbers. (Ie the LC-1 outputs a rich condition on its outputs when it's warming up I think.)

But seriously, this is all I did:

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Old 08-25-2008, 05:43 PM   #12
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I have mine tapped into an Add-A-Fuse hooked up to the Meter fuse under the dash. No idea whether it's hot during cranking or not, but I assume it is since all the gauges stay on when I start the car.
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Old 08-25-2008, 07:26 PM   #13
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The LC1 manual implies the power supply must NOT be hot during cranking. That's why I used the timing light plug.

Here's what Klaus Allmendinger of Innovate has to say about the power supply:

Hi,

No, it does not require power during cranking. The wording in the LC-1 and XD-16 manual is slightly different, but the meaning is the same. If you have a 12V source that is NOT on during cranking, it is actually better for the LC-1 and XD-16, as both draw considerable power during startup, which then is not available for the starter. Best is a power source that is only on when the engine is actually running.

Regards,
Klaus


I also placed the heater ground under the brake master cylinder. I bunched the signal ground along with the ECU grounds, which are at the back of the block on passenger side for the 1.6.
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Old 08-25-2008, 08:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Now I can let the LC-1 warm up, fire up the motor cold, and see if it's lean or rich right after starting it.

This is like the worst thing you could possibly do. Letting the LC-1 warm up, then starting the motor will blast the sensor with cold condensation from the exhaust, and lead to sensor failure.
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Old 08-25-2008, 08:48 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pipefather View Post
The LC1 manual implies the power supply must NOT be hot during cranking. That's why I used the timing light plug.

Here's what Klaus Allmendinger of Innovate has to say about the power supply:

Hi,

No, it does not require power during cranking. The wording in the LC-1 and XD-16 manual is slightly different, but the meaning is the same. If you have a 12V source that is NOT on during cranking, it is actually better for the LC-1 and XD-16, as both draw considerable power during startup, which then is not available for the starter. Best is a power source that is only on when the engine is actually running.

Regards,
Klaus


I also placed the heater ground under the brake master cylinder. I bunched the signal ground along with the ECU grounds, which are at the back of the block on passenger side for the 1.6.
"actually better" and "must NOT be" are slightly different. If you're actually worried about the LC-1 drawing too much voltage while cranking, simply find a fuse that is only hot with "on" and "run", or simply "run".
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Old 08-25-2008, 08:51 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compy View Post
This is like the worst thing you could possibly do. Letting the LC-1 warm up, then starting the motor will blast the sensor with cold condensation from the exhaust, and lead to sensor failure.
Conflicting information. I've also read and been told NOT letting it warm up first can damage the sensor. Who knows what the truth is. And FWIW I don't think it's gonna get blasted by much condensation where mine is located.
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Old 08-25-2008, 08:58 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Conflicting information. I've also read and been told NOT letting it warm up first can damage the sensor. Who knows what the truth is. And FWIW I don't think it's gonna get blasted by much condensation where mine is located.
This sounds like an attack, but I assure you it's not.

To me it makes more sense that if you let a sensor heat up, then hit it with cold water, it would create more damage then if you poured cold water on a cold sensor. Kind of like shocking the sensor.

Either way, Felipe(?) from innovate told me to not let the sensor heat up before starting the car, especially when the engine is cold.

I don't know where your sensor is located, but hopefully yours is in good shape.
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Old 08-25-2008, 08:59 PM   #18
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Here, I looked up the manual.

"Depending on the climate
and the sensor position in the exhaust, condensation water can form in the
exhaust pipes. This condensation water could then be blown by the exhaust
stream against the hot sensor when the car is started. The resulting heat shock
can permanently damage the sensor."

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/s...C-1_Manual.pdf

So believe whichever.
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Old 08-25-2008, 09:22 PM   #19
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Hmm. Well. I dunno. I see your point and all. Like I said conflicting info. I hate it. I have no idea. What you're saying does make sense. Guess I'll stop letting it warm up.
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