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Old 01-07-2010, 09:59 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by FRT_Fun View Post
Manual rack ftw. That is the real "proper way".
except the ratio sucks...
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:33 AM   #22
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I just looked over the FM website and screw that. I'm fine with looping my lines. Too much trouble for something I don't have a problem with now
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:10 AM   #23
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Its really not all that bad to do I just did it, I figured I should since I was building my new turbo set up. I never check caster either but now I might have to, I just run as much as I can when I align my car, I guess this is going to suck but I don't feel like spending the time to get one more spec in to my alignment. It already takes me about 2 hours to do my car by my self just setting the camber and toe. But I guess my alignment tools are old school. Anyways to point of this ramble is it takes me longer to align my car than it does to depower the rack properly.
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:52 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by FRT_Fun View Post
Manual rack ftw. That is the real "proper way".
Says who?
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:00 PM   #25
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Well I got out more fluid yesterday, much better than before.
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:00 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by kotomile View Post
Says who?
says the person who likes to turn the wheel more?



PHP Code:
                 Steering Ratio   Wheel turnslock-to-lock
Manual
:            18.0:1                   3.3
Power assist
:      15.0:1                   2.8 
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:37 PM   #27
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I'm aware of the ratio, but 1/2 a turn is nothing I would ever notice. Really a 1/4 of a turn since I've never once turned lock to lock in normal driving.

Smaller and a bit lighter too. Plus I'm lazy so no hacking things. Win win if you ask me.
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:56 PM   #28
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I notice it every single time I drive a de-powered PS rack.
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Old 01-07-2010, 03:03 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
except the ratio sucks...

this.

I can tell the difference going from one to the other... it's night and day. (de-powered vs. manual)
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Old 01-07-2010, 03:28 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
says the person who likes to turn the wheel more?
Exactly. I don't like to saw at the wheel like I'm driving a delivery truck, lol.
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Old 01-07-2010, 03:33 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Doppelgänger View Post
Sheeeet... I jsut cut my lines off, pulled the pump and turned the wheel a couple times to get the excess fluid. Never looked back...and I was running a 320mm steering wheel. Never bothered me...maybe it's becuase I have manly arms with muscle That was on my 96, I have not felt the need to ditch it on my 02 becuase it doesn't have the dead spots or suck at quick transistions like my 96 did.
In this crew and loving it.

It doesn't help that this fucktard has 1' scrub radius with his 0mm offset ***** ****.
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Old 01-07-2010, 03:35 PM   #32
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If you're bitching about the depowered rack, you're probably not cutting lap times fast enough to be considered a worthy resource, and you're probably a virgin.
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Old 01-07-2010, 04:29 PM   #33
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Forget removing the seal: all failed racks are of those type.

I looped my lines after removing virtually all fluid: hold one wheel (not the steering wheel, a road wheel) and move it lock-to-lock quickly. This makes a mess but squirts more fluid out than other methods.
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Old 01-07-2010, 07:52 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookyfish View Post
Forget removing the seal: all failed racks are of those type.

I looped my lines after removing virtually all fluid: hold one wheel (not the steering wheel, a road wheel) and move it lock-to-lock quickly. This makes a mess but squirts more fluid out than other methods.
That's a good idea. Never thought about doing it like that.


How do you catch the fluid? Or just let it spray every where?
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Old 01-07-2010, 07:57 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookyfish View Post
Forget removing the seal: all failed racks are of those type.
^ This.

When I was looking into depowering my rack, I came across quite a few threads on m.net about blown out steering racks that had been depowered "the correct way", but not one where the person just cut/looped the lines.
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:41 PM   #36
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Do you guys weld the quill shaft like the RX7 guys do? I noticed the flyin' Miata DIY does not go through this step?
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:02 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_Ciesielski View Post
^ This.

When I was looking into depowering my rack, I came across quite a few threads on m.net about blown out steering racks that had been depowered "the correct way", but not one where the person just cut/looped the lines.
How are they failing when the internal seal is removed?
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Old 01-08-2010, 03:37 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rennkafer View Post
How are they failing when the internal seal is removed?
Probably due to the assembly/disassembly steps
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Old 01-08-2010, 10:44 AM   #39
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I don't think I got all the fluid out when I did mine and I have no problem with it. Enough fluid was removed for me to cut everything off and tie the two together
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Old 01-08-2010, 11:43 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookyfish View Post
Probably due to the assembly/disassembly steps
Others have said that removing the seal reduces support for the rack, and that flex in the rack causes the failures. I've seen that rack, it's stout, and if it's flexing that much you've already crashed. Having de-powered several racks, and having had a good look at the rack and how it's supported, I think they're wrong and the rack failures are caused by improper assembly.

The rack is supported at the passengers side by a very large and long aluminum bushing. At the drivers side it's trapped between the pinon and the u-section adjustable yoke. Proper pre-load of this yoke is critical to both maximize support of the rack and to minimize effort required to turn the pinon; essentially it's a compromise between these two conflicting requirements.

I think the rack fails when the yoke isn't adjusted sufficiently hard against the rack, and the rack steps away from the pinon under load. From there it's pretty easy to chip or break off a rack or pinon tooth that's loaded on its edge.

The solution is to pay attention to the pre-load. On my '95, the factory says to center the rack then torque the adjustable pre-load cap to 4.9 N-m (43 in-lbf) three times, then back off 25-degrees.

On my own de-powered racks I follow the FM model and add welding the pinon to remove unwanted play there. Also, and like Savington says, you don't want too much caster. But done properly a de-powered rack is far superior to either a manual rack (too slow, and yes, you can tell) or power steering (crappy feedback), and is hardly any more difficult to turn (with stock rims and tire size and man arms) than a power rack.

As far as the suspension is concerned, it's one of the best and cheapest upgrades you can do and I wouldn't own a Miata with power steering. If I came to own a manual rack miata I'd trade the rack for a power rack just so I could de-power it. Yeah, it's that good. Done improperly, sure, like anything else it'll suck.
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