slightly out of the box fuel distribution system concept - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


General Miata Chat A place to talk about anything Miata

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-25-2008, 10:51 AM   #1
Ben
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default slightly out of the box fuel distribution system concept

As some of you know, I have a NB engine conversion that will eventually make its way into my 91. The common fuel system remedy with this conversion is to put a NA FPR onto the NB's fuel rail, but due to the location of the flange on the 01+ fuel rail, it is a pain in the *** to make the FPR fit.

So what if I drop a NB fuel pump FPR into my fuel tank and leave the NB pulse dampener on the rail. I have the Walbro 190HP in tank to more than keep up with demand. And then I can easily modify the 01 rail for dual feed. I can even go as far as supplying the former return line with pressurized fuel from the tank, essentially creating true dual fuel feeds to the rail.

Now understand why most people who install an NB engine into an NA swap the FPR over is because they will use the stock engine management. I won't be doing that.

Feedback?

Ben
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 11:00 AM   #2
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,833
Total Cats: 1,786
Default

only issue i see is that people are having trouble idling larger injectors at 60psi at idle.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 11:05 AM   #3
Ben
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

I agree. I do plan to go to the HR code so
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 11:09 AM   #4
Guest
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Vaughan, On, Canada
Posts: 1,092
Total Cats: 0
Default

Should be fine! Good idea Ben.
M-Tuned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 11:32 AM   #5
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,833
Total Cats: 1,786
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
I agree. I do plan to go to the HR code so
you could just use an adjustable 1:1 FPR to keep the idle pressure low.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 11:38 AM   #6
Ben
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

yeah, but I'd either need to run a vac line all the way to the rear, or I'd need to have two FPRs to make it work.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 11:45 AM   #7
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,796
Total Cats: 247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
yeah, but I'd either need to run a vac line all the way to the rear, or I'd need to have two FPRs to make it work.
Or you could do what I'm doing. I have the stock 99 fuel system. I added another pickup tube to the sending unit for the nitrous systems fuel pump. Anyway, I'm gonna use a stock fuel pump with the stock regulator blowing into a pierburg. Then the stock fuel line goes to the engine bay, where it will go to a 1:1 external adjustable return style regulator mounted to the firewall. The regulator has 2 outputs so that's will fuel a dual feed rail. Then you'll need a return line. I already ran a return and mounted a pickup tube in the sending unit, so that will be my new return line.
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 01:01 PM   #8
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,482
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Then the stock fuel line goes to the engine bay, where it will go to a 1:1 external adjustable return style regulator mounted to the firewall. The regulator has 2 outputs so that's will fuel a dual feed rail.
The regulator goes after the fuel rail. (pump to fuel rail to regulator to tank). So your regulator has 2 inputs, not outputs, which are there so it's easier to install your inlet line to the regulator. Or I'm completely not understand this which is probably the case.
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 01:31 PM   #9
Elite Member
iTrader: (15)
 
patsmx5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,796
Total Cats: 247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
The regulator goes after the fuel rail. (pump to fuel rail to regulator to tank). So your regulator has 2 inputs, not outputs, which are there so it's easier to install your inlet line to the regulator. Or I'm completely not understand this which is probably the case.
Yea, you didn't understand it completely. Here's the specs on the regulator I'm gonna use. Oh, and it has 3 regulated outputs, not 2. It's fuel goes in, 3 regulatded outputs , and a return.

Part Number: MAA-4305M Fuel: Gasoline/Alcohol Pressure Range (psi): 30-100 Regulator Style: Return Regulator Location: Inline Boost/Vacuum Reference Port: Yes Boost/Vacuum Rise Ratio: 1:1 Gauge Port: Yes Mounting Bracket Included: Yes Fittings Included: No Rebuildable: Yes Inlet Quantity: Single Inlet Attachment: Female threads Inlet Size: -8 AN Outlet Quantity: Three Outlet Attachment: Female threads Outlet Size: 3/8 in. NPT Return Attachment: Female threads Return Fitting Size: -8 AN Regulator Material: Aluminum Regulator Finish: Black anodized Quantity: Sold individually.


Here's a link the the regulator.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
patsmx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 02:11 PM   #10
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 406
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
only issue i see is that people are having trouble idling larger injectors at 60psi at idle.
how large? 550s are fine.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 04:14 PM   #11
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,482
Total Cats: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Yea, you didn't understand it completely. Here's the specs on the regulator I'm gonna use. Oh, and it has 3 regulated outputs, not 2. It's fuel goes in, 3 regulatded outputs , and a return.

Part Number: MAA-4305M Fuel: Gasoline/Alcohol Pressure Range (psi): 30-100 Regulator Style: Return Regulator Location: Inline Boost/Vacuum Reference Port: Yes Boost/Vacuum Rise Ratio: 1:1 Gauge Port: Yes Mounting Bracket Included: Yes Fittings Included: No Rebuildable: Yes Inlet Quantity: Single Inlet Attachment: Female threads Inlet Size: -8 AN Outlet Quantity: Three Outlet Attachment: Female threads Outlet Size: 3/8 in. NPT Return Attachment: Female threads Return Fitting Size: -8 AN Regulator Material: Aluminum Regulator Finish: Black anodized Quantity: Sold individually.


Here's a link the the regulator.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
Ahh ok I see now. I have the same basic regulator except aeromotive.
http://www.aeromotiveinc.com/product...sub=1&prod=157

And you are going to run a fuel rail with no "return" on the rail...or make the original return a second supply/dual feed. Makes more sense than my setup where I just replaced the OEM regulator with the fancy one where all the fuel flows thru the fuel rail before entering the regulator. It would have been smarter to do what you want to do and probably easier to plumb. No fancy Y fitting needed then...hmmm.
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 05:28 PM   #12
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
 
cjernigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 8,147
Total Cats: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
how large? 550s are fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
only issue i see is that people are having trouble idling larger injectors at 60psi at idle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
I agree. I do plan to go to the HR code so
It used to suck idling 550s before hi-res. Now i'm idling at 13:1, sometimes a little leaner without any issues. Y8s sequential injection helps him a little. So high-z 550 rx7 injectors can be idled in batch injection at the stock NB 60+psi fuel pressure at least as lean as 13:1 without problems.(When running hi-res)
cjernigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 05:33 PM   #13
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,914
Default

Why do so many people seem to be idling in the 13:1 range? Seems awful rich.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 05:39 PM   #14
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
SamS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,251
Total Cats: 7
Default

For maximum power.
SamS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 05:42 PM   #15
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,833
Total Cats: 1,786
Default

i was idling at like 1.2PW on 460s at 35psi.....for a good 14.7:1
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 06:07 PM   #16
Elite Member
iTrader: (24)
 
kotomile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 7,578
Total Cats: 40
Default

Speaking of your eventual engine swap Ben, have you checked your PMs?
kotomile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 06:13 PM   #17
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 406
Default

w/the hydraz I idle my 550 low-z injectorz at like 1.0ms and 14.4 AFR.

no idea what my fuel pressure is.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 06:14 PM   #18
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
 
cjernigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 8,147
Total Cats: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Why do so many people seem to be idling in the 13:1 range? Seems awful rich.
If I lean it out anymore it "surges" "oscillates" "goes apeshit" w/e you want to call it. Apparently with the higher NB fuel pressure with 550s that flowed for than 550 out of the box MS Hi-Res won't idle them smoothly any leaner.
Lucky bastards with low fuel pressure and small injectors.

What do you idle at Y8s?
cjernigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 06:33 PM   #19
Ben
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kotomile View Post
Speaking of your eventual engine swap Ben, have you checked your PMs?
No, I get waaayyy too many of the *******. What did you need?
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 06:55 PM   #20
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,914
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjernigan View Post
If I lean it out anymore it "surges" "oscillates" "goes apeshit" w/e you want to call it.
Bummer. Mine's been doing pretty well at ~ 14.5 with the 440 injectors, running HR code.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 57 07-19-2017 05:11 PM
Expected intake temps on the track? tazswing Race Prep 20 10-03-2015 12:04 PM
Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump $50 lsc224 Miata parts for sale/trade 2 10-01-2015 10:17 AM
Bad head gasket or ? shooterschmidty Engine Performance 8 09-30-2015 11:28 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:34 AM.