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Old 05-18-2015, 08:19 PM   #1
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Default Spal fans

Either my radiator fans or the relays have gone bad in my 04 msm. instead of replacing those I am planning on going aftermarket. I was thinking about the SPAL. here is a website https://www.a1electric.com/spal/faninfo.htm . The model i was thinking about was the 11inch. 30100411 What are peoples opinions. Anybody running there fans? When it comes to the wiring I was wanting to tap into my accessory in the steering column and have them running when the car is running. I had my fans on the supra set that way and it was all good. Like info on there wiring harness and relay. Thanks
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:54 AM   #2
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The spal fans that FM uses pull more than 4000 cfm. The fans you listed pull 844 each. I don't know what stock fans pull, but I am guessing they went with greater airfow for a reason. And their fans pull more amps, 2x at least. These cars have alot of cooling issues. Read "Miata cooling system thread"if you haven't already
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Old 05-19-2015, 02:23 AM   #3
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Fans running all the time sounds like a really silly thing to do, directly tapping them off the accessory line sounds really dumb but I'm sure you'd use a relay at least, which is a lot less dumb.

Figuring out why they don't work would be my #1 priority, I'd still let the ECU turn them on and off whatever you end up doing.
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Old 05-19-2015, 02:37 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvw View Post
The spal fans that FM uses pull more than 4000 cfm. The fans you listed pull 844 each. I don't know what stock fans pull, but I am guessing they went with greater airfow for a reason. And their fans pull more amps, 2x at least. These cars have alot of cooling issues. Read "Miata cooling system thread"if you haven't already
Yeap.

I run a pair of SPAL Fans, the 12" Extreme performance. They are bigger/beefier than the FM Fans.... They pull about 35A each. I had to install a beefier alternator (140A) so that the car would run them... They do move a ton of air though!

My recomendation is run a pair of 12" Fans on a custom or FM Shroud before going to the dual 11" thing. Bigger is better.
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Old 05-19-2015, 02:54 AM   #5
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I run a 14" spal fan. It does draw a lot of current on spin-up and was tricky to tune with a 7lb flywheel.

Mine is Spal 30102042, one of the cheaper if not cheapest I found, and pulls 1720 cfm @ <17A, which I found very reasonable (it does pull more at spin-up, I'd guess over 30A)

A1 Electric Online Store: Spal 30102042 14" High Performance Fan

edit: FM site says their fans pull 4540 m3/h or 2678 cfm

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Old 05-19-2015, 03:02 AM   #6
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You need to do some research. The MSM fans are different from all other NB fans iirc, and are multi-speed.

Figure out what's broken before investing in new hardware.

Found it, this is from Flyin Miata's airflow kit instructions:

"The Mazdaspeed Miatas (MSMs) have goofy fan wiring. Instead of having a separate primary / engine fan and secondary / AC fan, they have two different speeds for each fan. This has nothing to do with voltage / current, itís a matter of which winding in the motor is used. This is why there are four wires going into each fan on the MSM but only two on the included Spal fans (and the stock fans on earlier cars). To wire the Spals in, you need to connect the red or blue Spal wire to the yellow factory wire. Then connect the black Spal wire to the black factory wire. This is true for both the large and small fans. This means that both fans will come on at the same time"
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Old 05-19-2015, 03:06 AM   #7
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I am going to correct my statement here. Fm uses a different measurement than cfm, these fans actually pull 1328 cfm. Sorry about that but, the point is more airflow is needed to cool, especially if you are tracking your car.
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Old 05-19-2015, 03:09 AM   #8
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Also, mine pull 1870 cfm EACH, or 3740 for the pair. But CFM numbers for fans are misleading, as the flow numbers published are in free air, not bolted to a heat exchanger as they will be used for.

My setup, mine flow about 50-60% of what they are rated at on high, so about 2200 CFM total actually going through the heat exchangers.

Fans that pull lots of amps flow much better when bolted to a stack of heat exchangers vs cheaper/less powerful fans. If you have just a thin radiator a cheap fan is fine. If you have a thick radiator, big IC, and A/C Condenser that's when you need the best fans you can get.

Also worth nothing I had to do A LOT of wiring to make these work. New relays, fuses, series/parallel fan controller, MS3 to control fans on low and high, 10 gauge wires going to fans, etc... They also hit a lot of things, were a pain to package but worth it.
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Old 05-19-2015, 04:49 AM   #9
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Spal makes nice, high-quality fans -- I have an older set of the FM ones. Most aftermarket electric fans are junk, Spals are the exception.

That said, consider what you need more airflow for. If the car is overheating in traffic when it's 115F out because you have the AC on and the turbo intercooler is blocking airflow through the radiator, then yeah, good fans will help a lot with that. OTOH, if it's overheating on track then fans are not really all that useful. Consider that the "mouth" is about 1.25 square feet in area (roughly 6"x30"), and at 60 mph you're doing a mile a minute. That's 6600 cfm (5280*1.25) of airflow through the "mouth", so if you duct all of that so that it has to go through the radiator then you have far exceeded what you can do with electric fans.

--Ian
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Old 05-19-2015, 10:23 AM   #10
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Like i said on the other forum: Figure out why your fans aren't working, then fix it. The MSM fans are quite good.
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Old 05-19-2015, 04:24 PM   #11
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OP hasn't mentioned track use anywhere in this thread. If he is tracking it, he needs to go single fan, pull the ac, no fan shroud, and maximize airflow through the heat exchangers with proper ducting up front.
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Old 05-19-2015, 05:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
OP hasn't mentioned track use anywhere in this thread. If he is tracking it, he needs to go single fan, pull the ac, no fan shroud, and maximize airflow through the heat exchangers with proper ducting up front.
Serious question: What if you wanted a setup that did both? Could run on a track without overheating, but also kept the A/C and worked fine on the streets too? This has to be possible.
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Old 05-19-2015, 07:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
...series/parallel fan controller, ...
Tell us more.
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Old 05-19-2015, 07:05 PM   #14
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Tell us more.
It also has a time delay feature.

It's 4 relays, 3 used to wire the fans either in series or in parallel, fourth is a time adjustable delay relay. 40A fuses, 10 guage wires. I have a diagram posted in my build thread but if you want to see it I can find a pic.

Basically fans run on Low all the time, since my intercooler is very close to raditor. Fans switch to high when commanded to do so. When key off, fans run on low for 5 minutes then Off.

The setup results in the fans pulling I think 15-17A (I forget exact number) on low. On low, they move almost as much air as the stock fans. On high, they pull about 70-75A. Only go to high if engine is really hot, or AITs are too high.
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Old 05-19-2015, 08:10 PM   #15
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Ok. I've thought of doing the same. I thought you had an off-the-shelf solution.
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Old 05-20-2015, 01:33 AM   #16
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Patrick, where did you come up with the alternator,and did you run larger wire from your battery? I have thought about this because of throttle dip from the load of the fans. Also I second your question to Mobius about dual purpose setup. Keeping AC and still being able to run 8/10's maybe?
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Old 05-20-2015, 03:44 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvw View Post
Patrick, where did you come up with the alternator,and did you run larger wire from your battery? I have thought about this because of throttle dip from the load of the fans. Also I second your question to Mobius about dual purpose setup. Keeping AC and still being able to run 8/10's maybe?
I bought the alternator off Amazon, it's supposed to be a 140A alternator. It wasn't perfect, I had a hole that was threaded that needed to be drilled out to install it. Also, it for sure has more Amps than the factory alternator I removed, but I don't think I'm getting 140A out of it, at least not a lower RPMs.

I did not run a larger wire to the battery.

Regarding a setup that will do both, I think I'm going to end up yanking the A/C condenser and putting it in the rear of the vehicle with fans on it. Sucks because more electrical load/weight and custom fab, but that's really the only way I know I get enough airflow to the IC and Radiator to guarantee I can cool the car on the track. Anything else results in less air or hotter air to the IC and radiator.
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Old 05-20-2015, 02:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
Serious question: What if you wanted a setup that did both? Could run on a track without overheating, but also kept the A/C and worked fine on the streets too? This has to be possible.
Maybe with a TSE radiator. My car with my low-heat rotrex setup would not stay cool (under 220F) on track on even relatively cool days (80F) with:

FM radiator + stage 2 airflow kit
good ducting
non-vented hood

To keep the ac condenser in there, it might be possible with

TSE radiator
the 2 spal fans from the FM airflow kit
no shroud
ideal ducting
vented hood

I have no experience with the SM radiator. FM's radiator is really nice, made by Griffin, but it's only 38mm. The larger coolant reserves of the TSE radiator win out.
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Old 05-20-2015, 03:01 PM   #19
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You can run a 110A alternator from a 2.3L Millenia (the Miller cycle one) or a 90A alternator from virtually any KL-DE or KL-ZE mazda (626, regular millenia, mx3, mx6, etc).

They aren't bolt-in, but they fit.
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Old 05-21-2015, 10:17 PM   #20
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does anybody have a pic of the fan relays to make sure im looking at the same ones. When i went to autozone and oreillys what they had and what i was looking at where different.
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