track reliability psychotherapy
10-14-2009, 01:44 PM
#123
Tour de Franzia
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I don't know much about you IRL but I'd guess that you're a mooch. You drive your car to the track and professedly routinely get close to the FTD right? And you expect someone to else to bail you and get you and your car home if you **** up and mess up your car? There's a good reason why a lot of those 911s you pass aren't going that fast- they don't want their car to die and there's nothing wrong with that. I'd say that those people going at a "safe" and comfortable speed are being prudent, particularly if they drove their car there. I would really love to go to the track but if I screw up I don't want to have to say buh bye to all that money.
Yes, your personal finances do matter a great deal in this situation. As you've noticed all this car track racing (and even street-fast) stuff costs a lot of money. You seem to completely overlook that your car can be murdered by no fault of your own. If someone spills car juice all over the track, by you may be completely fucked out of your entire "investment" in your fun. Can you really handle that? It sounds like you can't. And that's investment in quotes because this is just for fun right? Good for you for going so fast that it costs you even more money to not break **** at that speed- that makes you a man. No, that really doesn't make you a man, that sounds like you're just like a greyhound at the dog track chasing a fake plastic rabbit. If you go super duper fast and set the track record what will that really get you? Are you trying to "go pro" or compete in some series? That will cost you way more that I think you can handle. Nothing's wrong with chasing a dream and wanting to be your best but be real and approach this **** like the enjoyable hobby that it is for you and pursue the hobby within the bounds of your financial means.
At a minimum hobby should not rely on the time, kindness, and labor of others to unfuck your lack of preparation and prudence. This is not do or die, this is supposed to be for fun and if your wallet can't handle that then take care of yourself and GTFO. If you're going to keep driving so awesomely then assume and manage your risks on your own and at least get a ******* trailer.
Yes, your personal finances do matter a great deal in this situation. As you've noticed all this car track racing (and even street-fast) stuff costs a lot of money. You seem to completely overlook that your car can be murdered by no fault of your own. If someone spills car juice all over the track, by you may be completely fucked out of your entire "investment" in your fun. Can you really handle that? It sounds like you can't. And that's investment in quotes because this is just for fun right? Good for you for going so fast that it costs you even more money to not break **** at that speed- that makes you a man. No, that really doesn't make you a man, that sounds like you're just like a greyhound at the dog track chasing a fake plastic rabbit. If you go super duper fast and set the track record what will that really get you? Are you trying to "go pro" or compete in some series? That will cost you way more that I think you can handle. Nothing's wrong with chasing a dream and wanting to be your best but be real and approach this **** like the enjoyable hobby that it is for you and pursue the hobby within the bounds of your financial means.
At a minimum hobby should not rely on the time, kindness, and labor of others to unfuck your lack of preparation and prudence. This is not do or die, this is supposed to be for fun and if your wallet can't handle that then take care of yourself and GTFO. If you're going to keep driving so awesomely then assume and manage your risks on your own and at least get a ******* trailer.
I have more than enough money to send my car anywhere, at any time on a flat-bed; I don't really care to drop $40k on a truck, $15k on a trailer, and use them once per month a the most. I rely on no one for anything. So thanks for the insult on the very basis of my moral fiber and dignity. Your insult both embarassed me and further depleted any sort of esteem I've gained in the last 4-years. I deserve it for creating this thread. Bye.
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10-14-2009, 01:57 PM
#124
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Whoah, let's back up here. I for one certainly did not mean to reiterate the negative personal attack aspect of it, just the points about being willing to write off anything that is raced in a really hard manner.
Allow me to use motorcycle road racing analogies since this is where most of my experience lies:
In the CMRA (motorcycle road racing) a lot of the bikes, including the one I have been racing the last few years, are ugly. This is because we know they are going to get thrown down the track sooner or later. Plus, you can build a decent track bike starting from a used street bike for $5-$10K depending on how crazy you get. Buying a used one that is ready for racing for under $7K is easy. So even a totalled bike is not as big a deal as a totalled car. And they are not worthless in either case since they can always be parted out.
Everyone brings their race bikes to the track on a trailer or in the back of a truck. NO ONE I know of that races bikes rides their bike to the track. Actually it would be against the rules due to bike prep for safety, but even if that was not true, no one would do it. The only ones that do that are the track day crowd, and even then it is common information that it is a bad idea. It is a good idea IMO to do the same with a car and trailer it to the track. In fact I am trailer shopping for next year.
Most of the attrition with bikes is due to crashes, and not so much problems with the bikes themselves. Japanese sport bikes are amazing really. Just throw on some race body work, race tires, tune the suspension, add safety wire, and go racing. No need for cooling upgrades, aftermarket ECUs, engine upgrades, etc. They tan take a LOT of punishment, that is all out racing for hours on end, with no worries on reliability for the most part. Really, they violate the triple constraint mantra; they are good, cheap, and fast (normally you only get to select two of the three - performance, cost, reliability) The big downside is the risk to life and limb which is significant. The skill level is arguably higher too so it is hard to learn. Ask Michael Schumacher
Anyway, three key points:
1. If you are going to race in a serious manner (beyond HPDE, or aggressive HPDE) then a dedicated race vehicle is a good idea.
2. Take it to the track on a trailer. **** happens.
3. Motor Racing is expensive. I spent about $1.5-3K a year on motorcycle racing/track days/expendables/equipment/crash-repairs and that is one of the cheaper forms of hard core amateur road racing. I am only going to cars for the reduced risk to life and limb. I am not looking forward to the cost increase.
Anyway, IRL Hustler is a good guy, not a douche. Trey, get a used $1500 car trailer, a beater truck, and go for it. I for one am looking forward to doing some laps with you in the near future.
Allow me to use motorcycle road racing analogies since this is where most of my experience lies:
In the CMRA (motorcycle road racing) a lot of the bikes, including the one I have been racing the last few years, are ugly. This is because we know they are going to get thrown down the track sooner or later. Plus, you can build a decent track bike starting from a used street bike for $5-$10K depending on how crazy you get. Buying a used one that is ready for racing for under $7K is easy. So even a totalled bike is not as big a deal as a totalled car. And they are not worthless in either case since they can always be parted out.
Everyone brings their race bikes to the track on a trailer or in the back of a truck. NO ONE I know of that races bikes rides their bike to the track. Actually it would be against the rules due to bike prep for safety, but even if that was not true, no one would do it. The only ones that do that are the track day crowd, and even then it is common information that it is a bad idea. It is a good idea IMO to do the same with a car and trailer it to the track. In fact I am trailer shopping for next year.
Most of the attrition with bikes is due to crashes, and not so much problems with the bikes themselves. Japanese sport bikes are amazing really. Just throw on some race body work, race tires, tune the suspension, add safety wire, and go racing. No need for cooling upgrades, aftermarket ECUs, engine upgrades, etc. They tan take a LOT of punishment, that is all out racing for hours on end, with no worries on reliability for the most part. Really, they violate the triple constraint mantra; they are good, cheap, and fast (normally you only get to select two of the three - performance, cost, reliability) The big downside is the risk to life and limb which is significant. The skill level is arguably higher too so it is hard to learn. Ask Michael Schumacher
Anyway, three key points:
1. If you are going to race in a serious manner (beyond HPDE, or aggressive HPDE) then a dedicated race vehicle is a good idea.
2. Take it to the track on a trailer. **** happens.
3. Motor Racing is expensive. I spent about $1.5-3K a year on motorcycle racing/track days/expendables/equipment/crash-repairs and that is one of the cheaper forms of hard core amateur road racing. I am only going to cars for the reduced risk to life and limb. I am not looking forward to the cost increase.
Anyway, IRL Hustler is a good guy, not a douche. Trey, get a used $1500 car trailer, a beater truck, and go for it. I for one am looking forward to doing some laps with you in the near future.
Last edited by ZX-Tex; 10-14-2009 at 02:45 PM.
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10-14-2009, 02:29 PM
#125
You don't have to spend $40K on a truck and $15K on a trailer! Put the crack pipe down. Sell your DD Miata. Buy a used (or heck even new) Toyota Tacoma. Go to one of a bazillion trailer dealers and buy an 18ft flatbed trailer people use for hauling Bobcats. You can probably get the trailer for $1000-1500 used.
Something like this:
Trailer, Utility, Cargo, Car Hauler, Flatbed - Dallas Cars & Vehicles - Kijiji Dallas, Texas
It doesn't have to be all the way. Don't have a place to store it? Rent a stall at an RV storage lot. You don't need uber Diesel truck to pull around a freaking Miata.
Something like this:
Trailer, Utility, Cargo, Car Hauler, Flatbed - Dallas Cars & Vehicles - Kijiji Dallas, Texas
It doesn't have to be all the way. Don't have a place to store it? Rent a stall at an RV storage lot. You don't need uber Diesel truck to pull around a freaking Miata.
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10-14-2009, 02:44 PM
#126
20' steel floor car hauler ,dove tail
20' flatbed car trailer asking $1350.
flatbed trailer
10' ATV flatbed for $400
You can buy Isuzu and Mitsubishi pickups cheap everywhere. You could have a reliable little pickup and trailer for $2-4 K.
I say screw it though. Drive to the track, own the track, drive home.
20' flatbed car trailer asking $1350.
flatbed trailer
10' ATV flatbed for $400
You can buy Isuzu and Mitsubishi pickups cheap everywhere. You could have a reliable little pickup and trailer for $2-4 K.
I say screw it though. Drive to the track, own the track, drive home.
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10-14-2009, 02:57 PM
#127
Boost Pope
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+0.5+0.5
(That's a total of +1)
My brother-in-law in FL has two trailers. One is a flat-bed that he bought in barely-used condition for about $1,000 (it had one trashed fender). It is a double-axle, and large enough that it would easily accommodate a Miata, a stack of tires, a toolbox, fuel cans, several dead hookers, etc. The ramp is probably too short for a racecar to make it on, but that's a simple matter of removing it and replacing it with something longer. Add a cheap 12v winch just in case the car can't make it back up under its own power someday, and you're good to go.
Cspence is currently selling his 1992 Ford F-150 XLT for $1,000 or trade for a hardtop: https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t39983/ And frankly, there are plenty of folks these days trying to sell pickup trucks for similarly cheap prices.
I would be shocked if I couldn't put together a full truck'n'trailer package for $3,000 - $4,000 within one week, including all necessary modifications for Miata use. That's, what, about one weekend's worth of blow for Hustler?
(That's a total of +1)
My brother-in-law in FL has two trailers. One is a flat-bed that he bought in barely-used condition for about $1,000 (it had one trashed fender). It is a double-axle, and large enough that it would easily accommodate a Miata, a stack of tires, a toolbox, fuel cans, several dead hookers, etc. The ramp is probably too short for a racecar to make it on, but that's a simple matter of removing it and replacing it with something longer. Add a cheap 12v winch just in case the car can't make it back up under its own power someday, and you're good to go.
Cspence is currently selling his 1992 Ford F-150 XLT for $1,000 or trade for a hardtop: https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t39983/ And frankly, there are plenty of folks these days trying to sell pickup trucks for similarly cheap prices.
I would be shocked if I couldn't put together a full truck'n'trailer package for $3,000 - $4,000 within one week, including all necessary modifications for Miata use. That's, what, about one weekend's worth of blow for Hustler?
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10-14-2009, 03:52 PM
#128
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Thanks for putting all those words in my mouth. I've spent an incredibly large portion of my life in solitude, as an island both socially and financially. I lived in a car for a few months after college, I was self-sufficient and I'm self-sufficient now. I've never been a mooch, never will be. I'll put a gun in my mouth before forgoing dignity.
I have more than enough money to send my car anywhere, at any time on a flat-bed; I don't really care to drop $40k on a truck, $15k on a trailer, and use them once per month a the most. I rely on no one for anything. So thanks for the insult on the very basis of my moral fiber and dignity. Your insult both embarassed me and further depleted any sort of esteem I've gained in the last 4-years. I deserve it for creating this thread. Bye.
I have more than enough money to send my car anywhere, at any time on a flat-bed; I don't really care to drop $40k on a truck, $15k on a trailer, and use them once per month a the most. I rely on no one for anything. So thanks for the insult on the very basis of my moral fiber and dignity. Your insult both embarassed me and further depleted any sort of esteem I've gained in the last 4-years. I deserve it for creating this thread. Bye.
With that assumption, it seems you can dish out the **** but you can't take it? A lot of your aggravating and obnoxious posts are quite amusing but let's face it, you get a kick out of being a dick. So bend over bitch because you really do deserve this.
You ******* *****, quit being a moronic dumbass and accept the fact that you have a very expensive hobby. Once you do, you need to prepare for the risks involved and their possible outcomes.
Good for you for paying your own way. That has nothing at all to do with prudence and pragmatism though. Anyone can pay their own way and end up in deep ****. Frankly, you sound young and dumb. It's time to put an entry in your ledger for the financial liability that is racing. If you are going as fast as you say you are, you need to take a realistic and careful look at how racing might (literally) impact your "investment". Let's spell it out clearly. WHEN RACING, YOU HAVE A HIGH RISK OF LOSING EVERYTHING. If you can't handle that financially/mentally/emotionally, DON'T RACE YOUR CAR.
Also, If retirement is so important to you, maybe you should be maxing out your 401k contributions or investing before going racing. Doing something with your money other than absurdflows and quaifes and rollcages and race gas and hotels and spare parts etc.. OR if racing is more important to you, that's fine also, but at least don't bitch about the plain realities of it- your **** will break, you will crash, you will spend a fuckload of money.
Lastly, $4000 transmission??? WTF? Buy a damn hauler. Do you even bring any spare parts to the track? Where do you keep them? Up your ***?
****, you know what your post did? It made a clown sad, you *******.
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10-14-2009, 04:21 PM
#129
Tour de Franzia
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I can't tell if you're being serious or not in this post but let's assume you are.
With that assumption, it seems you can dish out the **** but you can't take it? A lot of your aggravating and obnoxious posts are quite amusing but let's face it, you get a kick out of being a dick. So bend over bitch because you really do deserve this.
You ******* *****, quit being a moronic dumbass and accept the fact that you have a very expensive hobby. Once you do, you need to prepare for the risks involved and their possible outcomes.
Good for you for paying your own way. That has nothing at all to do with prudence and pragmatism though. Anyone can pay their own way and end up in deep ****. Frankly, you sound young and dumb. It's time to put an entry in your ledger for the financial liability that is racing. If you are going as fast as you say you are, you need to take a realistic and careful look at how racing might (literally) impact your "investment". Let's spell it out clearly. WHEN RACING, YOU HAVE A HIGH RISK OF LOSING EVERYTHING. If you can't handle that financially/mentally/emotionally, DON'T RACE YOUR CAR.
Also, If retirement is so important to you, maybe you should be maxing out your 401k contributions or investing before going racing. Doing something with your money other than absurdflows and quaifes and rollcages and race gas and hotels and spare parts etc.. OR if racing is more important to you, that's fine also, but at least don't bitch about the plain realities of it- your **** will break, you will crash, you will spend a fuckload of money.
Lastly, $4000 transmission??? WTF? Buy a damn hauler. Do you even bring any spare parts to the track? Where do you keep them? Up your ***?
****, you know what your post did? It made a clown sad, you *******.
With that assumption, it seems you can dish out the **** but you can't take it? A lot of your aggravating and obnoxious posts are quite amusing but let's face it, you get a kick out of being a dick. So bend over bitch because you really do deserve this.
You ******* *****, quit being a moronic dumbass and accept the fact that you have a very expensive hobby. Once you do, you need to prepare for the risks involved and their possible outcomes.
Good for you for paying your own way. That has nothing at all to do with prudence and pragmatism though. Anyone can pay their own way and end up in deep ****. Frankly, you sound young and dumb. It's time to put an entry in your ledger for the financial liability that is racing. If you are going as fast as you say you are, you need to take a realistic and careful look at how racing might (literally) impact your "investment". Let's spell it out clearly. WHEN RACING, YOU HAVE A HIGH RISK OF LOSING EVERYTHING. If you can't handle that financially/mentally/emotionally, DON'T RACE YOUR CAR.
Also, If retirement is so important to you, maybe you should be maxing out your 401k contributions or investing before going racing. Doing something with your money other than absurdflows and quaifes and rollcages and race gas and hotels and spare parts etc.. OR if racing is more important to you, that's fine also, but at least don't bitch about the plain realities of it- your **** will break, you will crash, you will spend a fuckload of money.
Lastly, $4000 transmission??? WTF? Buy a damn hauler. Do you even bring any spare parts to the track? Where do you keep them? Up your ***?
****, you know what your post did? It made a clown sad, you *******.
The next transmission option is $4,000.
Its not wheel-to-wheel bumpercars, its just amateur HPDE.
Right now each time I go to the track it costs me either $2k in turbo fabrication or at the least $500 in CHRA.
I take a comical amount of spares: bearings/hubs, rotors, calipers, gaskets, hoses, couplers, clamps...Its likely that **** will break and at $300 per track event, I make the most of my money.
I am prepared to write this car off whether through a nasty wreck at the track, getting hit on the street, or even if the car disappears in the night (I've been through the last two). I'm getting a little tired of dropping money on **** like turbochargers and new turbo kits hourly.
Just lean back, and open your mouth.
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10-14-2009, 04:33 PM
#130
I'm getting a little tired of dropping money on **** like turbochargers and new turbo kits hourly.
God I hope you aren't like this in real life.
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10-14-2009, 05:49 PM
#133
This forum kicks ***. I am glad I joined.
Hustler, if I may.
Building up track support is like building a car. It takes time to get all the parts, truck, trailer, ect. You will not do it overnight. You never know, as you build your hobby up, it may one day turn into a business. You may pioneer something that know one has ever done. The possibilities are endless.
You may get to the point that enough is enough, and you will maintain the level that you are in now. It depends on your comfort level.
Hustler, if I may.
Building up track support is like building a car. It takes time to get all the parts, truck, trailer, ect. You will not do it overnight. You never know, as you build your hobby up, it may one day turn into a business. You may pioneer something that know one has ever done. The possibilities are endless.
You may get to the point that enough is enough, and you will maintain the level that you are in now. It depends on your comfort level.
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10-14-2009, 07:11 PM
#134
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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It takes ***** to drive hard but takes even more to drive to the limit. Your only worry should be your life not your possessions. I believe your reliability question and this quote are misaligned but I agree with your concept. Its not the worry of stacking the car its the paying for it later.
Might I suggest the 9/10ths rule for your cars tuning. Get going with everything and go full bore absolute maximum everything then simply remove the last bit. Instead of 15psi (probably not your max) run 12psi. When tuning tune for clean burn rather than max power which should help lower temps and prolong life of everything. Just a thought.
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10-14-2009, 08:03 PM
#135
Screw towing, screw the dolly, screw fear.
Step 1. Drive to the track.
Step 2. Drive on the track.
Step 3. Embarass all the douchers running 100K cars.
Step 4. Get the phone numbers of the douchers wives & girlfriends.
Step 5. Drive home.
Step 6. Start making booty calls.
Built motor? check. 6 spd tranny? check. Good tune? check. Proper suspension? check. Solid brakes? check. The car is good to go. It's likely as reliable on the track as anything else you could run short of an NA Miata.
It's all paranoia and fear. Take your guns, drive to some rock quarry where you can shoot, drink a couple Hamms pounders and shoot the hell out of the guns. You need to get the testosterone levels up and stop paying attention to that little vagina in your head.
Step 1. Drive to the track.
Step 2. Drive on the track.
Step 3. Embarass all the douchers running 100K cars.
Step 4. Get the phone numbers of the douchers wives & girlfriends.
Step 5. Drive home.
Step 6. Start making booty calls.
Built motor? check. 6 spd tranny? check. Good tune? check. Proper suspension? check. Solid brakes? check. The car is good to go. It's likely as reliable on the track as anything else you could run short of an NA Miata.
It's all paranoia and fear. Take your guns, drive to some rock quarry where you can shoot, drink a couple Hamms pounders and shoot the hell out of the guns. You need to get the testosterone levels up and stop paying attention to that little vagina in your head.
This:
Bring extra **** to the track, parts, fluids ect. I have seen some bring extra trannys/motors ect to the track. Yesterday i got my new motor idling in the paddock for the first time ever. It had started prior twice, once to see if it ran and a second time to get it into the trailer. Broke it in on track. I think you should invest your 18k in a truck and trailer and spare parts.
Or just build that super beast/caged NA car you were talking about a while ago. I think your worried about loosing such a nice looking car. I have a hard time with that too, but i just look at it like its going to happen. **** will/does break and will need to be replaced. **** my car was sitting for 6 months and i had to look at it everyday till this weekend. Its all fun from here.
Bring extra **** to the track, parts, fluids ect. I have seen some bring extra trannys/motors ect to the track. Yesterday i got my new motor idling in the paddock for the first time ever. It had started prior twice, once to see if it ran and a second time to get it into the trailer. Broke it in on track. I think you should invest your 18k in a truck and trailer and spare parts.
Or just build that super beast/caged NA car you were talking about a while ago. I think your worried about loosing such a nice looking car. I have a hard time with that too, but i just look at it like its going to happen. **** will/does break and will need to be replaced. **** my car was sitting for 6 months and i had to look at it everyday till this weekend. Its all fun from here.
All your trailerz are belong to us.
Save up for a light trailer. Makes all the difference at a track day, knowing you can bring extra stuff and knowing that you can drive home, whatever you break, unless you wreck the car and need a flat bed. You don't need a Peterbuilt to tow a Miata. Any car that can pull 3000lbs is good enough.
Save up for a light trailer. Makes all the difference at a track day, knowing you can bring extra stuff and knowing that you can drive home, whatever you break, unless you wreck the car and need a flat bed. You don't need a Peterbuilt to tow a Miata. Any car that can pull 3000lbs is good enough.
i just need wrx wagon with a small trailer that has trailer brakes.
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10-14-2009, 08:36 PM
#137
Tour de Franzia
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maybe the best and most efficient post directed at hustler. Take heed, bitch.
oh you *******. enclosed trailer? The miata fits in that thing?
lololol. The alfa has enough brakes to stop that thing?
so cool.....
i just need wrx wagon with a small trailer that has trailer brakes.
oh you *******. enclosed trailer? The miata fits in that thing?
lololol. The alfa has enough brakes to stop that thing?
so cool.....
i just need wrx wagon with a small trailer that has trailer brakes.
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10-14-2009, 08:57 PM
#139
Cpt. Slow
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As I said before, I towed my miata (lightened, suppose that kinda matters) with my 1988 chevy 1500, 4.3l V6, 5spd. This was on a dolly, with quite a few spares/tools/gas/etc in the back. Worked fine, 55-70mpg the whole way there and back, including AC.
Dump all the money you want in the miata, but don't "waste" it on a trailer and towing truck. Something reliable, AC, V8 (V6 works, but why not use a V8), 5spd, and a $500 dolly or $1000 flatbed. The light dolly was the only reason the V6 was possible I think.
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