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Old 11-25-2015, 10:58 AM   #61
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I apologize, I don't mean to sound like I'm complaining. I think it's the whole reliability thing. Realizing that 4th gear on a 6speed transmission now falls under the category of consumables, it isn't a sustainable project. Why drive with fear, knowing it's a ticking time bomb, playing the lottery, you only have to win once to leave you stranded.

Stock big power seems all the more appealing. I'll stop complaining, but if I could do it again, it certainly wouldn't be a Miata motor.


I'm with you, I've always been a huge fan of bastard projects where people swap different motors in different cars. One of my favorites was an rb26dett in an e30. Unreal. Ugly as hell (all the colors), but the car was well done. f20c's in old z's. v8's into a brz. 13b's into Miatas.

Hnnng
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:01 AM   #62
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My car passed emissions in VA


It seems like the consensus is: Miata is awesome because it's cheap to replace wear items. Corvette is more functional and has a bigger *** and more power. A Miata with a v8 is pretty much best of both worlds, but you still aren't going to IKEA for a new bed.
I have driven a few V8 miatas, 5.0 swap, LS swap, some other chevy motor. I am honestly not a huge fan of them for the street. The low end is just a bit to much to be fun. The biggest thing I remember about driving the LS car was waiting at stop signs to take a left turn, you had to make sure you had plenty of room with cars coming either direction, a tiny bit to much throttle and your backend goes out. On the street thats not something I really want to deal with. With my turbo miata's I have never had that fear on the street.

The other thing that gets me with LS swaps is you need about 15grand up front to buy everything to get the car going. I have far more then that into my car now, but I have it spread out a 8 year span, while enjoying the car during that time. So it makes costs much easier to swallow.
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:03 AM   #63
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All that thrust makes me
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:07 AM   #64
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I have driven a few V8 miatas, 5.0 swap, LS swap, some other chevy motor. I am honestly not a huge fan of them for the street. The low end is just a bit to much to be fun. The biggest thing I remember about driving the LS car was waiting at stop signs to take a left turn, you had to make sure you had plenty of room with cars coming either direction, a tiny bit to much throttle and your backend goes out. On the street thats not something I really want to deal with. With my turbo miata's I have never had that fear on the street.

The other thing that gets me with LS swaps is you need about 15grand up front to buy everything to get the car going. I have far more then that into my car now, but I have it spread out a 8 year span, while enjoying the car during that time. So it makes costs much easier to swallow.

I see your point. But I think my car spent more in downtime than functioning so I wouldn't have known the difference in cost over time. I think I need to reassess what it means to have balance. Perhaps this is why most are completely satisfied with 250whp because it's still manageable and fun for a Miata without being dog slow.
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:08 AM   #65
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All that thrust makes me

Just in case you're curious. I wish it was consolidated into just pictures, but man this guy has some fab skills.

RB26dett E30 build thread - e30tech.com Forums
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:15 AM   #66
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I have driven a few V8 miatas, 5.0 swap, LS swap, some other chevy motor. I am honestly not a huge fan of them for the street. The low end is just a bit to much to be fun. The biggest thing I remember about driving the LS car was waiting at stop signs to take a left turn, you had to make sure you had plenty of room with cars coming either direction, a tiny bit to much throttle and your backend goes out. On the street thats not something I really want to deal with. With my turbo miata's I have never had that fear on the street.

The other thing that gets me with LS swaps is you need about 15grand up front to buy everything to get the car going. I have far more then that into my car now, but I have it spread out a 8 year span, while enjoying the car during that time. So it makes costs much easier to swallow.
did he have stance coils and/or it was lowered quite a lot?..

Mine would do the same thing when i had stance coils. the rear suspension had 1" of travel. you would get into the power band (dirt bike talk) and it would compress the rear suspension enough to bottom out. once it bottomed out it was "hold the **** on" because the tires would cut lose. Mind you the power band in 3rd that was 45-90mph. so at 80mph it looked bad ***, but was super sketchy to drive. once i switched to the afcos i gained an 1" of travel in the rear. Now i can power on anywhere, and it won't bottom out. just hooks and goes. as long as your not in first, and the tires aren't cold.

i agree it's not as much fun on the street because you'll rocket into reckless driving speeds in under 3 seconds (from a roll). on a track it's just a **** load of fun. the corner workers at RA turn 10a-b will come find me after events and thank me for power sliding. i guess they get board and watching a "car hang it" out is fun for them.
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:29 AM   #67
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did he have stance coils and/or it was lowered quite a lot?..

Mine would do the same thing when i had stance coils. the rear suspension had 1" of travel. you would get into the power band (dirt bike talk) and it would compress the rear suspension enough to bottom out. once it bottomed out it was "hold the **** on" because the tires would cut lose. Mind you the power band in 3rd that was 45-90mph. so at 80mph it looked bad ***, but was super sketchy to drive. once i switched to the afcos i gained an 1" of travel in the rear. Now i can power on anywhere, and it won't bottom out. just hooks and goes. as long as your not in first, and the tires aren't cold.

i agree it's not as much fun on the street because you'll rocket into reckless driving speeds in under 3 seconds (from a roll). on a track it's just a **** load of fun. the corner workers at RA turn 10a-b will come find me after events and thank me for power sliding. i guess they get board and watching a "car hang it" out is fun for them.
Honestly don't remember what suspension setup was on the LS miata. It was several years ago.

As a purely track car I think it is an awesome thing to do, but was a majority street car I think the turbo is more fun and forgiving. One day when I finish my 12 other miata projects I might do it.
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:35 AM   #68
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I'm fairly certain that a turbo powerband of the same proportions would be less forgiving. My friend with the 400+ miata is basically ice scating on the road every time he gets on it.

With the LS the torque is flat and manageable, and throttle modulation is much more direct. A car that goes from 150tq to 350tq within 1-1.5k rpm, when the "wave" hits, you're rarely staying composed through it. Usually you're counter-steering and fighting the rear to stay planted
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:38 AM   #69
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I'm fairly certain that a turbo powerband of the same proportions would be less forgiving. My friend with the 400+ miata is basically ice scating on the road every time he gets on it
With a turbo miata, I can have anywhere from 150whp to 400whp with a quick change of EBC settings. So you don't have to run ALLOFIT all of the time.
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:45 AM   #70
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I see you haven't tuned modern DBW ecu's/cars yet
It's even cooler than that
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:55 AM   #71
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Vlad have you seen what gesso is doing with his NB? Seems like its what you want.
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:57 AM   #72
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Yep. He da man
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:01 PM   #73
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With a turbo miata, I can have anywhere from 150whp to 400whp with a quick change of EBC settings. So you don't have to run ALLOFIT all of the time.
all of it all the time is the fun part


100% of the people i know that run Nitrous. The bottle is always empty. why, because they use it all up they day after they fill it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I'm fairly certain that a turbo powerband of the same proportions would be less forgiving. My friend with the 400+ miata is basically ice scating on the road every time he gets on it.

With the LS the torque is flat and manageable, and throttle modulation is much more direct. A car that goes from 150tq to 350tq within 1-1.5k rpm, when the "wave" hits, you're rarely staying composed through it. Usually you're counter-steering and fighting the rear to stay planted
100% agree. high horsepower turbo cars scare the crap out of me. that nothing nothing vvvvvVVVSSHHHHHHHHHHHHH and the tires are just like, see ya, by, have a good one. my car is fun to drive, the non fun part is cops. so i try to keep it on the track.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:18 PM   #74
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all of it all the time is the fun part


100% of the people i know that run Nitrous. The bottle is always empty. why, because they use it all up they day after they fill it.




100% agree. high horsepower turbo cars scare the crap out of me. that nothing nothing vvvvvVVVSSHHHHHHHHHHHHH and the tires are just like, see ya, by, have a good one. my car is fun to drive, the non fun part is cops. so i try to keep it on the track.
^^^^This!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I'm fairly certain that a turbo powerband of the same proportions would be less forgiving. My friend with the 400+ miata is basically ice scating on the road every time he gets on it.

With the LS the torque is flat and manageable, and throttle modulation is much more direct. A car that goes from 150tq to 350tq within 1-1.5k rpm, when the "wave" hits, you're rarely staying composed through it. Usually you're counter-steering and fighting the rear to stay planted
Having had a 400whp 1gn neon 10 years ago, I know that feeling, except it was fail wheel drive.
Lsx power is much simpler to modulate based on loud pedal position.

There is an aluminum 6.2 in my garage. ..... but T56 costs the same as, if not more than, my NA8 did. but Holy ****, it'd be a blast.

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Originally Posted by psyber_0ptix View Post
I see your point. But I think my car spent more in downtime than functioning so I wouldn't have known the difference in cost over time. I think I need to reassess what it means to have balance. Perhaps this is why most are completely satisfied with 250whp because it's still manageable and fun for a Miata without being dog slow.
I think initially 1/4 turn before it breaks on a stock 1.8 would be fun, but then I know I'll want more. Then the expense of a built engine. Then, the part I've not researched enough and you mentioned earlier. The trans and rear diff. ..

You have broken 4th multiple times? Are the 6 speeds weaker or more robust than the 5 speed? Did you just sheer the teeth off of 4th? Did it destroy anything else, it was it as simple as replacing that gear set?


And to think, I really wanted to sr20det swap a 510.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:27 PM   #75
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You have broken 4th multiple times? Are the 6 speeds weaker or more robust than the 5 speed? Did you just sheer the teeth off of 4th? Did it destroy anything else, it was it as simple as replacing that gear set?
No, but it is going to get more sketchy with stickier tires and that sweet spot between 3500-5000 where torque ramps up. I already have a back up transmission on standby. The only thing biding time is that I'm using a 4.1 final drive which gives the engine more mechanical advantage over the road, but as soon as I swap the 3.63 set in, it'll just make the trans work harder. (I can't stand 4.1 on highway; 3400-4000rpm cruising hits that droning resonance and shakes my motor bits loose)
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:30 PM   #76
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^^^^This!!!!!!



Having had a 400whp 1gn neon 10 years ago, I know that feeling, except it was fail wheel drive.
Lsx power is much simpler to modulate based on loud pedal position.

There is an aluminum 6.2 in my garage. ..... but T56 costs the same as, if not more than, my NA8 did. but Holy ****, it'd be a blast.



I think initially 1/4 turn before it breaks on a stock 1.8 would be fun, but then I know I'll want more. Then the expense of a built engine. Then, the part I've not researched enough and you mentioned earlier. The trans and rear diff. ..

You have broken 4th multiple times? Are the 6 speeds weaker or more robust than the 5 speed? Did you just sheer the teeth off of 4th? Did it destroy anything else, it was it as simple as replacing that gear set?


And to think, I really wanted to sr20det swap a 510.
If i had to do it all again i would skip the T56. it's too heavy for racing. i'm planning on just swapping in a dog cut 4 speed with a 2.75 rear gear. it will still be good for 160mph and i only use 3 speeds anyway. (3rd-4th-5th)

if your building a street car check out the vn4500 or 5500 i can't remember the name exactly. it's the 5 speed out of the 6.0L heavy duty trucks. i've seen them on ebay for a few hundred. warning they are heavier then the t56.

or you can just auto tragic the thing 4l60e's are everywhere. ton's of companies offer paddles for them. one of the v8 roadster guys showed to lsfest with a turbo 5.3(i think) NC. sucker was stupid fast. he has no roll bar so he would lift and hit the brakes before the finish. even so he was still doing 11's.

Last edited by OGRacing; 11-25-2015 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:49 PM   #77
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There are no GM truck gearboxes worth anything at all. For the LS based motors, the only thing you could ever get from the factory is a NV3500 glassbox behind a 4.8L...

The rest are huge granny gear truck boxes. Like a 4l80e, useless gearing...
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Old 11-25-2015, 03:03 PM   #78
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No, but it is going to get more sketchy with stickier tires and that sweet spot between 3500-5000 where torque ramps up. I already have a back up transmission on standby. The only thing biding time is that I'm using a 4.1 final drive which gives the engine more mechanical advantage over the road, but as soon as I swap the 3.63 set in, it'll just make the trans work harder. (I can't stand 4.1 on highway; 3400-4000rpm cruising hits that droning resonance and shakes my motor bits loose)
You'll be pleased to know that it's really not that bad on the street.

The few here that can call them consumables drive their cars in a way that most of us can only dream of. In 1 session they put more abuse on it than we do in a year on our street cars, if not more.

#becausestreetcar
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Old 11-25-2015, 03:27 PM   #79
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You'll be pleased to know that it's really not that bad on the street.

The few here that can call them consumables drive their cars in a way that most of us can only dream of. In 1 session they put more abuse on it than we do in a year on our street cars, if not more.

#becausestreetcar
I hope that's the case. Planning on HPDE next year. But maybe non competitive funsie runs
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Old 11-26-2015, 12:02 AM   #80
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I've had 350+ in mine for 2 full track seasons now with 3.90's and a 6 spd with no issues with the trans and the car gets run hard and fast on 245 sticky tire on 10" wheels, not saying that someday it might not let go, but it isn't something that happens constantly.
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