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Old 04-25-2009, 12:38 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
you're right. I have never owned a honda automobile, and never will own a honda automobile. I do own a honda powered lawn mower cause i got tired of rebuilding the brings and crapon sears garbage every winter and it starts on the first pull every time. Thats the extent of what hondas are good for, imo. Don't care how fast it is, how cool it looks, how much it resembled something a ******* alien being might come visit earth in.. They're still piles of garbage to me. Sorry.
i hate american cars because i don't like rednecks hurrrrrrrrrr dumbestics
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Old 04-25-2009, 12:45 PM   #42
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my h22 is slow. but its more reliable than jesus.
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Old 04-25-2009, 12:51 PM   #43
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All the Honda haters need to realize something. It's just like the Dorifters. It's not the Honda. It's the Honda Driver. Honda makes a perfectly good car. They can make stupid HP easier than ours. It's a reliable platform too. (unlike VW) It's the millions of damn, idiot, punk, ricey, POS, douchebag, wannabe, a-hole kids that own them and the "tuner" shops that cater to them that are the problem.

It would be easy to take an early Civic HB and turn it into a track monster. Strip it, turbo, suspension. Same stuff we do. Those things could tear up HPDE. Strangely in 15-20 track days I have never seen one there. Some Acura's lightly modded but no Civic/CRX. All those idiot douchebag kids build them for the 1/4 mile. I think there is a reason for that. That's how long they can actually pay attention to something. ADD, ADHD, Hyperactive little turds they are.
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Old 04-25-2009, 12:54 PM   #44
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It kinda bothers me how often the ricer topic comes up. This horse has been dead for ages.
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Old 04-25-2009, 01:21 PM   #45
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If I could drop in a B16 motor I would.
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Old 04-25-2009, 01:48 PM   #46
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Whoever thinks honda's are shitty POS cars is ignorant as **** and living under a rock. PERIOD
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Old 04-25-2009, 01:53 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
but anyone who says they only build good lawn mowers is not considering a LOT of things...
Yeah I forgot about the 2 wheeled vehicles.. I'll give them that. Always did want a 954.

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Then your grasp of quality engineering is limited. Sorry to say.
Odd, I never claimed to be an Engineer.

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i hate american cars because i don't like rednecks hurrrrrrrrrr dumbestics
Huh?? Only "Rednecks" I see around here are Mexicans who think they're in the ******* wild west.

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Whoever thinks honda's are shitty POS cars is ignorant as **** and living under a rock. PERIOD
Best internet argument point ever.
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Old 04-25-2009, 02:09 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by cueball1 View Post
All the Honda haters need to realize something. It's just like the Dorifters. It's not the Honda. It's the Honda Driver. Honda makes a perfectly good car. They can make stupid HP easier than ours. It's a reliable platform too. (unlike VW) It's the millions of damn, idiot, punk, ricey, POS, douchebag, wannabe, a-hole kids that own them and the "tuner" shops that cater to them that are the problem.

It would be easy to take an early Civic HB and turn it into a track monster. Strip it, turbo, suspension. Same stuff we do. Those things could tear up HPDE. Strangely in 15-20 track days I have never seen one there. Some Acura's lightly modded but no Civic/CRX. All those idiot douchebag kids build them for the 1/4 mile. I think there is a reason for that. That's how long they can actually pay attention to something. ADD, ADHD, Hyperactive little turds they are.
exactly ^^^ i kinda feel bad for some of these guys. to be sooo narrow minded, they must have boring lives. i loove my miata, but that doesn't make me hate other cars. i also love my galant vr4 and our shops (that i build/and drive/race) turbo 1.8 swapped crx. i do trackdays in all of the cars and they are all fun. although my miata is the funnest (rwd) and most rewarding to drive fast, it's not the fastest, even though it pretty quick around a road course.
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Old 04-25-2009, 02:10 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
Best internet argument point ever.
Ok then, lets have an argument. You say honda's suck: HOW?? They are not engineered to be fast or powerful. They are VERY reliable cars. Always on top of their game with vtec, i-vtec, vtc, and numerous other efficiency improving emissions decreasing technology that almost every other car maker is imitating nowadays.. They just HAPPEN TO BE ABLE TO MAKE STUPID BIG POWER WITH MODIFICATIONS.... Drop a large turbo into a d16 1.6L, which is their lowest/shittiest engine and it will keep up with the miata engine's in power and reliability. That is their SHITTIEST engine. Nearly all their heads flow a tremendous amount of air and nearly all their engines take to mods damn good. Just because idiot ricers are able to get ahold of them and rice them out ruining their reputation doesnt mean the brand sucks. Go on clubrsx.com, there are a shitload of guys making 500+whp ON BONE STOCK BOTTOM/TOP ENDS. Go check out s2ki.com, there are a shitload of s2000's making 400+whp on BONE STOCK bottom/top end. With a thicker headgasket they are making up to 700whp. There are built s2k's and rsx's well in the 700whp range with nothing fancy just off the shelf parts. How many miata's here are making that kind of power? Go to the REAL honda/diy enthusiast sites: they have crazy setups with custom exhaust/intake manifolds, running gt35r/40r turbo's making UNGODLY power and not blowing up. Is the car designed for that kinda power? Hell no, but them being able to do this just shows how well honda's are designed from the factory, to be able to achieve this kind of power. Now check out some of the crx's out there running over 500k miles, all the civics/accords/etc requiring nothing more than regular maintenance and being reliable well into the 400k's in mileage.

I could go on for days, but here is my point: we all love our miata's/subaru's/etc, but to write honda off as a POS brand simply because it has more ricers than the other brands is just ignorant. You cant just ignore all that honda has been doing for the last 15+ years. Its purpose is to make dependable/reliable/efficient economy grocery getters and it is very good at what it does.
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Old 04-25-2009, 02:20 PM   #50
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These threads make my gut hurt from laughter! Just kills me how many people get so heated and pissed because someone doesn't like their precious Honda brand.

On a serious note yes, they do make a ton of reliable cars. As noted before the only problems I really have with them is all but two are front wheel drive, the douche sticks that own them, nearly every engine they make sounds like complete **** to me, and with the exception of maybe 4 cars they're easily some of the worst looking vehicles I've laid my eyes on. Again thats just my opinion. *Shrug*
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Old 04-25-2009, 02:26 PM   #51
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I'm not heated at all man

I haven't owned a honda for years now and frankly dont really care about them. My wife has a civic hybrid which we regret getting because gas is so cheap now we should have just gotten a regular civic and pocketed the big premium for a "hybrid". It just bothers me when people throw every single fact out the window and make claims about honda's being "shitty". If you just plain dont like how they look and sound and that they are fwd that is your opinion and you're entitled to it, just dont claim that they make "shitty" cars/engines.
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Old 04-25-2009, 02:36 PM   #52
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Hell I'm defending them and I've never owned a Honda. Likely never will unless they figure out how to get more than 8 ft/lbs of torque from an S2k motor. I like the s2k platform. It desperately needs a motor with some bottom end though.
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Old 04-25-2009, 03:04 PM   #53
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I agree with the thought that honda owners are the real problem and what actually makes the company look bad as a whole. Honda makes very good cars and especially good engines. To be able to get 300hp out of a 2L N/A engine is quite a statement. I'd love to one day own an nsx, but thats probably the only car from honda that'll be worth while to me. s2000s are good, but too close to miatas for me. I just hate when a ricey POS pulls up beside me trying to race and giving me a bad look, or some honda owner tries to talk a buch of crap just because he thinks hes the fastest **** out there.
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Old 04-25-2009, 05:31 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
Huh?? Only "Rednecks" I see around here are Mexicans who think they're in the ******* wild west.
What is sarcasm?

Hehehe 18psi wrote a novel
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Old 04-25-2009, 05:35 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by cueball1 View Post
Hell I'm defending them and I've never owned a Honda. Likely never will unless they figure out how to get more than 8 ft/lbs of torque from an S2k motor. I like the s2k platform. It desperately needs a motor with some bottom end though.
They have already came out with a way to make torque on a honda: its called a turbo
Seriously though, the average boosted s2k is usually in the 400's whp with at least 3xx torque, on pump gas, fairly low boost and stock internals (though its a good idea to get a thicker hg) and the topend is just boner inducing....To me that is damn good enough.
Only reason I didnt get an s2k is because they are so damn expensive (compared to a miata) and so damn expensive to modify (compared to a miata)....So I got the next best thing: A MIATA
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Old 04-25-2009, 08:23 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
They have already came out with a way to make torque on a honda: its called a turbo
Huh??





First three examples I can find from a quick google image search. A low, medium, and very high power car. Thats a pretty poor torque number on all three, the first one however has a VERY nice curve to it... FLAT across the board.

A motor with a horsepower number 200+ above the peak torque makes baby Jesus cry..

Heres what that chart should look like:



Thats a BONE STOCK 6.0L Gen III SBC with 10psi trubo...






I know... apples vs apples.. The weather is shitty and I'm bored.
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Old 04-25-2009, 08:44 PM   #57
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6.0L small block turbo vs 2.0L pea shooter. That torque curve on the 1st dyno is absolutely beautiful btw, I'd "settle" for that any day of the week

It seems to me that you like insta-torque with a mediocre topend. You would love a subaru

ps: its 120whp over the torque curve, not 200
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Old 04-25-2009, 11:07 PM   #58
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Honda is the ****! My miata gets spank by my friend's single cam civic all the time if you are talking about straight line.
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Old 04-26-2009, 02:57 AM   #59
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Why the fuss about torque? If the engine makes 300 hp but only 100lb-ft, who cares? It'll still be fast, fun, and will rev sky high. F1 engines only make something like 200ft-lbs of torque (but they spin to 18K+), and I'm sure none of us would say those are bad engines.
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Old 04-26-2009, 03:10 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
6.0L small block turbo vs 2.0L pea shooter. That torque curve on the 1st dyno is absolutely beautiful btw, I'd "settle" for that any day of the week

It seems to me that you like insta-torque with a mediocre topend. You would love a subaru

ps: its 120whp over the torque curve, not 200
Yeah its kinda rare to see a small displacement engine with that flat of a torque curve, and that "high" with the RPM its turning.

I really wanted like an 02ish WRX sedan really bad until I learned about their transmissions.. Friend has a 2002 wagon, stock turbo, HKS Up pipe, full hks exhaust, and some cheap crappy CAI and a generic "stage II" flash (whatever the hell that means..) It was a freakishly fast car, until recently it decided to start falling on its face and making no boost/power. Engine seems to run fine, hardly even makes factory boost, no boost/vacuum leaks we can find, replaced EBC, o2 is fine, etc.. Loaned him a MBC and he took the EBC out completely and now seems to be making around 17psi again.. He still claims its still not acting right.

Actually was kinda pissed when I raced him in my MS6, he put it to me pretty bad on the highway.. He refuses to run me from a dig which is what I want in fear he'll blow his tranny.. Maybe one day I can get some boost on the Miata and own him with that..

Quote:
Originally Posted by messiahx View Post
Why the fuss about torque? If the engine makes 300 hp but only 100lb-ft, who cares? It'll still be fast, fun, and will rev sky high. F1 engines only make something like 200ft-lbs of torque (but they spin to 18K+), and I'm sure none of us would say those are bad engines.
Uhm... Because Horsepower is nothing more than a mathematical equation of Torque and RPM.

horse⋅pow⋅er

 /ˈhɔrsˌpaʊər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [hawrs-pou-er] Show IPA –noun 1. a foot-pound-second unit of power, equivalent to 550 foot-pounds per second, or 745.7 watts.
torque

 /tɔrk/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [tawrk] Show IPA ,noun, verb, torqued, torqu⋅ing. –noun 1. Mechanics. something that produces or tends to produce torsion or rotation; the moment of a force or system of forces tending to cause rotation.
Torque is required to get something with any mass put into motion. You're right, Formula1 cars have a very high hp number and a low torque number. Those cars are not built for start / stop performance, and they're VERY light weight.. IIRC around 800kgs. Crotch rockets average around 100rwhp and 40-60ftlbs of torque, which also weigh nothing. Theres a reason the fastest turbo honda civic in town refuses to race anybody from a dig. By the time he gets into the powerband (you know, 8000-9000rpm.. lol) the race is over.

Last edited by elesjuan; 04-26-2009 at 03:55 AM. Reason: Totally forgot to reply to second post quoted
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