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Old 01-12-2010, 11:14 AM   #1
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Default Very interesting Spec Miata thread

Spec Miata Community: JD's SM Build Guide

Quoted from first post: "This will be a tell all guide, the tech legal but not so "intent" legal complete "how to" with all the black magic of passing tech reveled."

This is from none other than the very influential SM guy Jim Daniels. Many of you guys familiar with SM will know that cheating has supposedly been rampant among the SM ranks, and for next year a new engine spec has been implemented to eliminate some of the black box aspects of the pro built motors. I think this thread attempts to expose some of the black magic involved in top SM builds, perhaps leveling the playing field(?)

This thread will be VERY interesting, to say the least.
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Old 01-12-2010, 12:06 PM   #2
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that's pretty cool. that's gonna cause quite a stir. i see big teams pulling out and the spec going back to what it was designed as. grassroots racing!
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Old 01-12-2010, 12:44 PM   #3
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Cheating is a big issue in all sorts of classes. I saw a lot of it when I raced formula fees. The problem is that nobody will actually call anyone out and have engines torn down and inspected like they used to.
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:16 PM   #4
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pretty cool... Most importantly I am interested in how they can retune the stock ECU. This MUST get out, kinda like a reflash? This is huge for OBD2 cars that want to go turbo and must maintain the stock ecu for inspection.
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Old 01-13-2010, 10:41 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longuyen88 View Post
pretty cool... Most importantly I am interested in how they can retune the stock ECU. This MUST get out, kinda like a reflash? This is huge for OBD2 cars that want to go turbo and must maintain the stock ecu for inspection.
Sorry, but I don't think the retune would include fuel mapping. Someone on here may know better, but I think it probably just involves overclocking the ecu to increase the rev limit some. This is similar to what is/was being done in ST autocross obd2 miatas, although there has, I think, been some advancement in getting an MS into the ecu case and still pass obd2. Again, above my intelligence level.

The bottom line is that you shouldn't underestimate what these guys are doing to be "competitive." Even within the spirit/word of the rules, the top cars are incredibly optimized. Beyond the spirit of legality, common practice involves parts bin optimization for things like the "right" bend in subframes and suspension arms to get alignment numbers, matching rod and piston weights to create de-facto balanced rotating assemblies, etc.
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:41 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webby459 View Post
Sorry, but I don't think the retune would include fuel mapping. Someone on here may know better, but I think it probably just involves overclocking the ecu to increase the rev limit some. This is similar to what is/was being done in ST autocross obd2 miatas, although there has, I think, been some advancement in getting an MS into the ecu case and still pass obd2. Again, above my intelligence level.

The bottom line is that you shouldn't underestimate what these guys are doing to be "competitive." Even within the spirit/word of the rules, the top cars are incredibly optimized. Beyond the spirit of legality, common practice involves parts bin optimization for things like the "right" bend in subframes and suspension arms to get alignment numbers, matching rod and piston weights to create de-facto balanced rotating assemblies, etc.

"1. ECUs I do them for all cars (only 4 of us in the country who can do all years beyond the rev limiter), 1990 to 2009 MX5s (Miata) Timing curves, Fuel curve etc... See the classified section."

timing curve and fuel curve.....??

Parts optimization is common knowledge for anyone doing any sort of competitive racing (even "stock" class autocrossing).
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:07 PM   #7
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Being able to hack the OEM ECU would be cool. I do it on my '05 subaru for $20 invested (ebay cable).
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:09 PM   #8
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Buwahaha, I raced spec miata in 2008. What a crock of ****. The way some of these cars would motor past you was as if they had a greddy kit...good for JD! A little too late but I can't express my hatred enough towards these pro motor, pro shocks, lightened geared trans, wrong final drive, clocked/tuned ecu guys. They have ruined the sport and ran the cost up to 20k+ for a optimized car. This is why Miata Challenge will succeed...transparency.
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longuyen88 View Post
"1. ECUs I do them for all cars (only 4 of us in the country who can do all years beyond the rev limiter), 1990 to 2009 MX5s (Miata) Timing curves, Fuel curve etc... See the classified section."

timing curve and fuel curve.....??
I fail at reading.
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Old 01-13-2010, 01:46 PM   #10
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Does my heart good when a kid with a bone stock 1.6 beats guys like these on pure skill in the rain.
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Old 01-13-2010, 01:48 PM   #11
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a bone stock 1.6
IMO, the intent of the class...
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webby459 View Post
IMO, the intent of the class...
Sadly racing brings out the small ***** in so many people.

<-- gladly avoids competition... enjoys going fast :0
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:24 PM   #13
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I looked hard into getting into spec miata racing a year or so ago, but after hearing about stuff like this over and over again, my interest wained.

A couple buddies and I have been thinking about getting a bunch of beater miatas with the same weight, same inexpensive shocks/springs (probably spec miata bilstein/eibach), azenis, and go run them against each other at the track. Wouldn't be fast, but the cars would be simple, cheap, and comperable. All down to skill, like what spec miata was intended for.
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rharris19 View Post
I looked hard into getting into spec miata racing a year or so ago, but after hearing about stuff like this over and over again, my interest wained.

A couple buddies and I have been thinking about getting a bunch of beater miatas with the same weight, same inexpensive shocks/springs (probably spec miata bilstein/eibach), azenis, and go run them against each other at the track. Wouldn't be fast, but the cars would be simple, cheap, and comperable. All down to skill, like what spec miata was intended for.
Probably not too much glory in it, but you could take your idea into SM, as well. If you had friends in SM with jy motors and ots parts, limited prep, you could race each other. I'm sure you could have some pretty fricken awesome battles mid to back of pack. Pretty cheap, too.

I have a baby seed of a desire to start looking into an ITA Miata build. They just look fun.
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:46 PM   #15
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We would have to run RA1 tires which adds some expense and conform to other rules. We just want to make them for under $3000 each and race them with little maintenece cost after that.
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rharris19 View Post
A couple buddies and I have been thinking about getting a bunch of beater miatas with the same weight, same inexpensive shocks/springs (probably spec miata bilstein/eibach), azenis, and go run them against each other at the track. Wouldn't be fast, but the cars would be simple, cheap, and comperable. All down to skill, like what spec miata was intended for.
That's something I could get into. Would work with you guys since most of us are Aggies, and you can store the cars (where tamper time is limited).

The most fun I've ever had racing was go-karting with my high school buddies. You jump into carts that are identical, no idea of the setup, and acclimate to the track, car and competitor's driving to win.
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:03 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rharris19 View Post
We would have to run RA1 tires which adds some expense and conform to other rules. We just want to make them for under $3000 each and race them with little maintenece cost after that.
You are right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
That's something I could get into. Would work with you guys since most of us are Aggies, and you can store the cars (where tamper time is limited).

The most fun I've ever had racing was go-karting with my high school buddies. You jump into carts that are identical, no idea of the setup, and acclimate to the track, car and competitor's driving to win.
+1. The most fun I had on track was in Skippy's MX5 Cup cars. Real equal cars bring out the truth.
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:25 PM   #18
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You can still run in the SM group with other tires, you'll just get disqualified (assuming you place well enough for anyone to care) and your points wouldn't count. Who's to stop you. Get your asses out there.

I personally am building a spec so I'd love to have more cars out there; It's already a huge group. I don't buy all these excuses for not going spec because of the cheating...I have friends that run up front and they are damn good drivers and that's it. An engine only helps you once you have the skill to run up front. If you aren't top 5, don't even waste your money on an engine.
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:32 PM   #19
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Those posts are pretty cryptic. He must be good friends with Corky to pick up that habit. Will be nice once he actually posts a PDF.
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:35 PM   #20
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thread is closed now over there. sucks.
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