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Old 12-26-2008, 09:54 PM   #81
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Hustler,


After all your research at BITOG what was your conclusion?!? You going redline? Rotella? Something else? What weight's looking good for the turbo Miata?

I know you have researched this like crazy. What'd you find out?
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Old 12-27-2008, 12:11 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cueball1 View Post
Hustler,


After all your research at BITOG what was your conclusion?!? You going redline? Rotella? Something else? What weight's looking good for the turbo Miata?

I know you have researched this like crazy. What'd you find out?
Well Dave G from Redline said:
Quote:
For your Miata driven on the track as well as on the street I would recommend the Motor Oil, the 10W30 would be a good choice if clearances on bearings are about stock or 10W40 if somewhat looser than stock. The Motor Oil has a full additive package so could be left in for the full season, the track days are beneficial to the oil easily boiling out contaminates if it reaches a reasonable operating temperature.
They think the high-end esters and additives can do 10+ 2-hour track days and still lubricate and not shear out...I think that's a bold statement.

I have Rotella dino straight 40w in the car now and plan on running my first track day on that. After that and a couple thousand miles I should have all the break-in shrapnel out and ready for a proper oil analysis, I'll call the motor "broken-in" after that.

With whatever oil I start with, I'll do an oil analysis after each track day, then make my decision based upon performance and change interval. I'll probably start with Redline, which I expect to protect better and last longer, but Rotella dino or syn is cheap and readily available at wal-mart...we'll see.

Weight and viscosity will be different for each oil, motor, and condition. You probably already know this but weight and viscosity are based upon those, and you run the thinnest oil you can to achieve the desired minimum pressure. That was 20w50 in my 1.6 motor, and it still only made 55psi at redline on the track in 100* heat (probably needed an oil cooler, regardless of what m.net says). My current motor is hitting the relief valve (90psi) at 3500rpm in 80* heat at 215* oil temp during a mountain run with the straight-40 dino oil(awesome motor ).

Considering I have that oil cooler, I may end up running something lighter than 10w30 as long as the pressure is high, and it may be Rotella dino...I'm going to let the data select the lubricant.

If I learned anything from BITOG and a library of UOA's, its:
Rotella T dino oil outperforms anything this side of redline, motul, brad penn, and schaeffer. I'll never spend a cent on a GIII oil aside from Rotella (or delvac); all the "over the counter" synthetics are inferior in every way.
If you're not spending extended time on the track at high rpm, oil selection doesn't really matter aside from change intervals and oil pressure
You must get oil temps up to 220+ degrees or contaminants will kill lubrication
wix filters are one of the best made (I bought a case)
gear oil selection is super important. Our cars like Motul and Schaeffer. I suspect my Mobile1 gear oil sheared out and caused my 4th gear synchro to die.
re-pack all bearings with Reline grease, they'll last forever if you do.
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Old 12-27-2008, 12:51 AM   #83
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So are you saying that Rotella T dino is superior to Rotella T Synth?
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Old 12-27-2008, 01:02 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by ZX-Tex View Post
So are you saying that Rotella T dino is superior to Rotella T Synth?
no...ooops. I forgot to discuss that ****. But like i said, its going to be a rotella product or redline.
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Old 12-28-2008, 01:57 PM   #85
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I'm almost due for an oil change I'm going to try out this rotella oil..

currently using this: new Mobil 1 0-30w with the green cap

dont really like it, makes the HLAs extra noisy
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Old 12-29-2008, 09:51 AM   #86
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Old 12-29-2008, 10:06 AM   #87
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this thread has a handful of people who actually go racing, discussing oil choices.
Endurance Race Oil? - Bob Is The Oil Guy
Again, if you're going racing, then just run HDEO because you're not driving the car hard in comparison.
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Old 12-29-2008, 10:49 AM   #88
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Mobil 1 Synthetic FTW!

I know it's better, my dad is an engineer for Exxon-Mobil.

Great price, easy to find, and always comes out clear as when I put it in. Plus I got used to it with the Daytona as it was THE only oil to run in the Triumph Triples.
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Old 12-29-2008, 10:55 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
Mobil 1 Synthetic FTW!

I know it's better, my dad is an engineer for Exxon-Mobil.

Great price, easy to find, and always comes out clear as when I put it in. Plus I got used to it with the Daytona as it was THE only oil to run in the Triumph Triples.
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:09 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
heavy duty engine oil (diesel oil(rotella)) is not suitable for gasoline engines...according to the EPA Study up on Rotella on BITOG.com and you will leave overpriced, GIII oils behind.


The EPA isn't concerned with the life of your motor. They only care about their government dictated narrow view metrics.
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:17 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I've heard from the Redline engineer that the Redline base stocks are identical to Motul, but of course half the price. Yes, I make it rain.


...and I heard back in 2003 from an engineer that worked for yokohama at a champ car race that the ES100 was going to be a far superior autocross street tire to the Falken Azenis.

I'm not saying that Redline isn't great oil. I'm saying people trying to sell you stuff have a huge interest in telling you what you want to hear.
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Old 12-29-2008, 02:28 PM   #92
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I've been looking at the BITOG forum and have to give Hustler some props. In typical fashion he's over thinking everything. He's been over at BITOG doing the research and asking the questions. They have a ton of Used Oil Analysis charts from different types of vehicles and different uses. Many of them heavy hauling, racing, HPDE/autox/dd cars or other hard uses.

Redline does very well there. The UOA's from many sources show it is consistently one of the best performing and lasting oils out there. Rotella is also a very good product when looking at the UOA's.

Yes there are other good products. I'm not saying Mobil 1 sucks, etc. I'm just looking at consistency and volume of information. Both Redline and Rotella are hard to find fault in. Both are readily available across the country. Some lesser known and highly regarded oils are hard or impossible to find depending on where you live.

I realize the Redline guy responding to Hustler's questions is going to praise his product. I was greatly impressed that you can actually ask them questions about their products and get good and thoughtful responses back. That says a lot about Redline's support of their product in the racing and enthusiast community.


To be clear Hustler. Are you endorsing the Rotella Sythetic or Dino? Both?
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Old 12-29-2008, 02:36 PM   #93
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Quote:
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Then again I've never done a UOA.

followed by hasty retreat
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:54 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenR View Post
...and I heard back in 2003 from an engineer that worked for yokohama at a champ car race that the ES100 was going to be a far superior autocross street tire to the Falken Azenis.

I'm not saying that Redline isn't great oil. I'm saying people trying to sell you stuff have a huge interest in telling you what you want to hear.
I also stated that I would let the oil analysis determine my choice.
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Old 12-30-2008, 11:03 AM   #95
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So is there a consensus here? Im gonna have to change my oil in 100 miles.
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Old 12-30-2008, 11:05 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cueball1 View Post
I've been looking at the BITOG forum and have to give Hustler some props. In typical fashion he's over thinking everything. He's been over at BITOG doing the research and asking the questions. They have a ton of Used Oil Analysis charts from different types of vehicles and different uses. Many of them heavy hauling, racing, HPDE/autox/dd cars or other hard uses.

Redline does very well there. The UOA's from many sources show it is consistently one of the best performing and lasting oils out there. Rotella is also a very good product when looking at the UOA's.

Yes there are other good products. I'm not saying Mobil 1 sucks, etc. I'm just looking at consistency and volume of information. Both Redline and Rotella are hard to find fault in. Both are readily available across the country. Some lesser known and highly regarded oils are hard or impossible to find depending on where you live.

I realize the Redline guy responding to Hustler's questions is going to praise his product. I was greatly impressed that you can actually ask them questions about their products and get good and thoughtful responses back. That says a lot about Redline's support of their product in the racing and enthusiast community.


To be clear Hustler. Are you endorsing the Rotella Sythetic or Dino? Both?
Well, I was surprised by the redline guy suggesting I go 10+ track days on the oil...that's a bold ******* statement. I'm going to let the $20 oil analysis decide what I do. I will certainly document it here.

I find fault in Mobile 1. Its roughly 3x the price of Rotella Dino, and they're just about equal performers in TBN, shear, and viscosity w/heat.

I'm still torn on oil choice. I'm looking at both rotella dino and syn. I've used rotella dino in both cars. I thought about this last night.

I'm going to put 1-2k miles on my car with Rotella dino, then do a track day on it, and send it out for a UOA. It will be royally fucked with all kinds of crazy #'s since its a new motor, getting hot for the first time. Then I'm going to run Rotella Syn and do a UOA after each track day. If I can get 4 or more track days on a change, then I'll stick with Rotella syn because its $25 per gallon, I can get it at Osama-bin-walmart, and that change interval is convenient.

I'm going to spend $20 per analysis, but I and everyone here will know exactly which oil to put in their track car, with data to back-up the decision.
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Old 12-30-2008, 11:09 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by levnubhin View Post
So is there a consensus here? Im gonna have to change my oil in 100 miles.
I do not think one will ever find a definite consensus on any 'what oil should I use thread' anywhere. Every motor related BBS (car, motorcycle, whatever) I have ever read or participated in always brings up and debates this topic on multiple occasions with no definite conclusion. Ultimately I think one has to evaluate the information at hand (usually a mix of scientific, expert, and anecdotal) and draw ones own conclusion.

I use Rotella myself but by no means am suggesting that everyone should. Your call.
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Old 12-30-2008, 11:21 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by dc2696 View Post
Very enlightening. My favorite (M1 0w40) seems to have fared quite poorly.

I really wish however that they had repeated the tests after each of the oils had been run through an engine for several thousand miles. IMO, that would have been the real key point- to see whether the performance of the miracle oils tapers off and becomes equal to that of the others after they've got some mileage on them.
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Old 12-30-2008, 11:33 AM   #99
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Very enlightening. My favorite (M1 0w40) seems to have fared quite poorly.

I really wish however that they had repeated the tests after each of the oils had been run through an engine for several thousand miles. IMO, that would have been the real key point- to see whether the performance of the miracle oils tapers off and becomes equal to that of the others after they've got some mileage on them.
wow, the royal purple results contradict everything I've read on BITOG...unless that test was done back when RP was a GV, which has now switched to GIII stocks. lol

This **** justifies the need for a UOA for people like us.
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Old 12-30-2008, 12:50 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I also stated that I would let the oil analysis determine my choice.



Sounds like a plan Stan, make it happen cap'n.
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