Originally Posted by codrus
(Post 1280104)
IMHO staged injection is the right answer. I'm sure you can hire a fabricator to add four more bungs to the EUDM manifold for less than half the cost of a set of ID2000s.
--Ian |
ID1700s are the "right" answer. Staged injection is a bandaid.
But do staged injection. I want to see you figure it out so I can try and run it will 2 sets of gt500 injectors :) Pretty sure the 1700s are really new technology. Don't think much will be out there. Aren't they like $2k for 4? |
Originally Posted by aidandj
(Post 1280107)
ID1700s are the "right" answer. Staged injection is a bandaid.
But do staged injection. I want to see you figure it out so I can try and run it will 2 sets of gt500 injectors :) Pretty sure the 1700s are really new technology. Don't think much will be out there. Aren't they like $2k for 4? |
The result is pressure and voltage sensitivity exceeding that of the ID1300, requiring only 9 volts to open consistently at 6 bar, and a flow rate of ≈ 2640 cc/min at 7 bar Call ID. I hear they are good people. |
They are excellent people. The cust service I got from them each time has been exemplary.
One of the reasons I use them on all my cars and recommend them to every single car I work on/tune. If you call them they will answer each of your questions, and then you can share with us, because there isn't too much info out there on big boy fuel setups, and every bit helps. |
Originally Posted by aidandj
(Post 1280107)
ID1700s are the "right" answer. Staged injection is a bandaid.
There's not much to figure out, really. You modify the manifold, install four more injectors and another fuel rail, run some fuel to it, and tell the ECU about them. If you're low on injector drivers you can run them in batch mode, because you're only going to use them at high boost. At least, you could with the Hydra (I did), I assume the MS is at least that capable. --Ian |
You aren't getting as far on ID1000s because you're revving the motor higher. What is your fuel pulsewidth at ~7100rpm?
e: Just post your datalog. |
With 18 PSI pulley, 7,100 RPMs = 12.7ms
With 22 PSI pulley, 6,700 RPMs = 15.5ms (didn't rev to 7,100 on this pulley) |
Originally Posted by aidandj
(Post 1280107)
ID1700s are the "right" answer. Staged injection is a bandaid.
But do staged injection. I want to see you figure it out so I can try and run it will 2 sets of gt500 injectors :) Pretty sure the 1700s are really new technology. Don't think much will be out there. Aren't they like $2k for 4? Also a set of four ID1700's is definitely not $2k. See link below.
Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 1280109)
I can't even find the 1700s for sale at any price. Not sure what that means....
90-05 Miata, 1.6L / 1.8L | ID1700 |injector Dynamics | 1700.11.02.60.11.4 - Mazda - ID1700 - Fuel Injectors - Fuel Delivery - Category |
What are your gas-equivalent AFRs on E85? Anything richer than 12.0 is silly. Soviet was in the 12.5-12.6 range IIRC.
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Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1280323)
What are your gas-equivalent AFRs on E85? Anything richer than 12.0 is silly. Soviet was in the 12.5-12.6 range IIRC.
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IIRC Theseus was in the low 12s. I wouldn't hesitate to park it at 12.3 or 12.4. Remember that we only run richer in boost to prevent detonation and reduce cylinder temperatures, and E85 solves both of those problems. You're basically looking for max power AFR, although that requires a dyno to determine :)
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Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1280390)
IIRC Theseus was in the low 12s. I wouldn't hesitate to park it at 12.3 or 12.4. Remember that we only run richer in boost to prevent detonation and reduce cylinder temperatures, and E85 solves both of those problems. You're basically looking for max power AFR, although that requires a dyno to determine :)
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There is no "point of det" most of the time. You don't just keep going, you stop when you stop making power easily.
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1280394)
There is no "point of det" most of the time. You don't just keep going, you stop when you stop making power easily.
So tune till you don't make power easily, unless you get det. Same as spark. What AFRs do you target on CA gas? Don't you do most of your tuning off the dyno? Or do you use virtual dyno. |
With E I've run out of spark before I saw det or stopped making power.
I use both when possible. Depends on what the car will be used for, but low 11's on 91 water. I agree with Sav though, and even said the same thing in a PM response to Pat a while ago (the part about running 12afr) Though I'm not sure how much headroom .5afr will provide to the injectors. |
You lean it out until it stops making more power. There's (virtually) no fear of melting pistons or detonation, so no reason to run richer than max power.
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1280397)
Though I'm not sure how much headroom .5afr will provide to the injectors.
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Yeah with full time closed loop you're fine, but make sure you have at least 5% EGO correction for those times you may get a crappy batch (or make sure your flex fuel is working properly)
I've seen a full point swing in AFR between different tanks of E without touching anything. |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1280414)
Yeah with full time closed loop you're fine, but make sure you have at least 5% EGO correction for those times you may get a crappy batch (or make sure your flex fuel is working properly)
I've seen a full point swing in AFR between different tanks of E without touching anything. I've read you say here before you've seen a full point swing in AFR on E85 between batches. That's 1/2 the reason I was waiting to touch my AFRs, just to see if they move a lot this winter. So far, they have stayed the same every fill up since I did the conversion this summer. |
Yep, happened multiple times. I think it's when people have residual pump gas or when they go to different stations and one has min e70 and one min 85, which can swing the ethanol content by as much as 10-20%. I also hear that in other states the blend changes pretty significantly between summer/winter
Just set up EGO corr table to allow room for it and you should be fine. On some of the OEM ecu's we tune we don't have closed loop in boost luxury, which is why many stay on the rich side |
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