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Old 01-11-2007, 04:49 AM   #1
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Default wheels and tires, lots of questions, i need help

I am going to be doing a lot of auto crossing, and plenty of track time in the future, and I run the canyons almost every night. I need a wheel tire combo with maximum grip wet and dry (it has rained almost every day since the beginning of November here, but it normally isnít very cold.

Wheels: what is the big deal about running a 30mm offset on the street? There was something about scrub radius error and easy fitment, but I donít really know what that means and I could not find much of an explanation of them online. What is this? Does running 30s require harder suspension (Hence okay in race but not on the street) I swear have seen cars with 30 off set wheels and 225 wide tires that were not beyond the fender, but also probably did not fit completely inside the wheel well during full suspension travel. Is this the issue? will 30s hit the lip on tight turns or bumps? Would 30s be okay on the street if I rolled the fenders, what does doing this take? How much performance difference is there on the track? Is it worth an extra half pound or pound to get the 30 offset instead of the 38? I was originally considering the kosei K1-TS because they are only 12.6 lbs but they are a 38 offset, and with another half pound or pound I could get a 30, you were saying it takes 2 or 3 lbs to real make a difference, how much off set makes a difference in handling?

Tires: how do the azenis do in the rain? Where I live it does not normally get cold in the winter, but it has been raining almost every day since the beginning of November, so wet traction is important. I am also considering the toyo T1-Rs. The thing is I know I will be hitting every autox within 100 miles or more, and I want to be competitive, and I understand that the azenis are great for that. However I also run road courses and will be going after track events fairly soon, in addition I run the canyons almost nightly and I run them hard. The problem is that as I understand it, the azenis get greasy with extended use, how greasy and how long does that take? How easy are they to cool off and go back to sticky?
Like I said, the other option I was thinking of is the t1r, how does it compare to the azenis in dry, extended use, wet, tread ware, im happy with 10,000 miles on a set if it gets me great grip. The t1rís are available in a 215 where as the azenis are only available in a 205 could this make up the difference in dry traction between the two and make them equal?
i know the toyos are great about being light weight and being very uniform, not causing the 60mph shimmy, how do the falkens compare?

Sorry this is so ridiculously long. Thanks in advance.

i originally sent this to Brian at Good-win Racing, but i want your guys' input too.
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Old 01-11-2007, 09:47 AM   #2
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Ok i have your answer go to goodwin racing and get some enkei rpf1s in a 33 mm offset they weight 9 lbs and cost about 176 apeice then get some bridgestone potenza s03 225-50-15 tires as long as you dont go below 30 degrees you should be fine if so consider the gforce line of tire. the main reason agianst wider ofset is that is causes acelerated bushing wear and tranfers more laod to the suspension but then agian if you put premo suspension stuff on there ie poly busshings and good shooks springs you should be alright. there is a good chance you will rub on the box thta holds the air bag deal in the front fender a little sand paper or patience will grind it downa enough to where this wont happen anymore or just remove the box. the rears have alot of clearance the t1rs are owned by most tires as well as the azenas the only reason they have a name is becouse they are on of the few people that make small tires for stock cars go with my afore mentioned tires BTW tire rack has alot of test data on tires as well enjoy.
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Old 01-11-2007, 09:53 AM   #3
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Tires: The new rt-615s are supposed to be better in that rain....however, not the best. I hear the Khumo Ecsta MXs (comparative) work better in the rain, but not as good as the Azenis in the dry. However, they don't heat like the Falkens and would be better suited for the track. But again the new design of the 615s was supossed to fix that, however they still will tend to get greasy (not really a big deal, alter technique). Also think about the Hankook RS2, another tire comparative to the MX and RT-615. All three will be contenders for the top Street Touring class tire.

T1s wouldn't last long on the street, however it's a typical rain tire for competition cars and will be the most competitive. Most likely 500-2000 miles, minus whatever abuse autoxing. Ultimately if you are serious about competition you'll want an R-Compound.


CLICK THIS PDF FOR A GRASSROOTS MAGAZINE TEST ON THEM ALL TESTED WITH A MIATA!!!!
http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com...5_tiretest.pdf
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Old 01-11-2007, 10:22 AM   #4
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Out of those 3, the 615, the rs-2, and the MX...I think my RS-2 did better in the rain...(I have the 615s now, and buddy of mine has the MXs...which I've driven quite a bit)

But for street use I like the feel of the 615s. But if your serious about track racing/competitive auto-x R-comps are what you'll want if your not in a ST class.
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Old 01-11-2007, 11:32 AM   #5
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the 615s were great in the rain when new... drove them in a couple of horrid downpours. but it was warmer than it is now... so I'm sure that made a big difference.

I'll know about the Hankooks in oh a month or so when I get my sexual wheels.
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Old 01-11-2007, 12:00 PM   #6
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225/50/15? That's a little tall, little better than an inch overall comared to a 195/50/15. Really on the street does one need a 225?

My vote is for the RS2. All reports say that it is a good all around tire.
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Old 01-11-2007, 06:34 PM   #7
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I suggest the RA-1. I know plenty of people that have gotten close to 10K miles on the street with them.
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Old 01-11-2007, 07:03 PM   #8
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At the expensive of you paint. The RA-1 throws up a LOT of rocks and gravel. After running about 4 months everyday on them my paint is all sandblasted just outside the wheel well. I wouldn't recommend it, and they become damn hockey pucks when the temp dips to below 10*C. They are race tires and require lots of heat to get working, when they are cold they have less grip than a max performance street tire, and unless you drive like a total asshat on the street you'll never get enough heat in them to make them sticky.
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Old 01-11-2007, 08:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
At the expensive of you paint. The RA-1 throws up a LOT of rocks and gravel. After running about 4 months everyday on them my paint is all sandblasted just outside the wheel well. I wouldn't recommend it, and they become damn hockey pucks when the temp dips to below 10*C. They are race tires and require lots of heat to get working, when they are cold they have less grip than a max performance street tire, and unless you drive like a total asshat on the street you'll never get enough heat in them to make them sticky.

I'm not saying they are great for everyone. But sounds perfect for this application.

"I am going to be doing a lot of auto crossing, and plenty of track time in the future, and I run the canyons almost every night. I need a wheel tire combo with maximum grip wet and dry (it has rained almost every day since the beginning of November here, but it normally isnít very cold."
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Old 01-11-2007, 10:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
225/50/15? That's a little tall, little better than an inch overall comared to a 195/50/15. Really on the street does one need a 225?

My vote is for the RS2. All reports say that it is a good all around tire.
yess when you wanna go and not spin it is a must and it significantly enhances your cornering limits 75-80 mph curves can be taken at 110-120 mph and in the rain 70-75 is doable. big hp and high speed needs real rubber, the taller makes the speed all the more impressive, dont hate. I sugesst that if you are going fast enough nobody sees your paint so forget about it.
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Old 01-11-2007, 11:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
yess when you wanna go and not spin it is a must and it significantly enhances your cornering limits 75-80 mph curves can be taken at 110-120 mph and in the rain 70-75 is doable. big hp and high speed needs real rubber, the taller makes the speed all the more impressive, dont hate. I sugesst that if you are going fast enough nobody sees your paint so forget about it.
I don't see "big hp" in his sig though. On close to stock hp I wouldn't go 225.

Frank
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Old 01-12-2007, 12:47 AM   #12
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225/50/15 will fit just fine unless your car is slammed, speedo will be a bit off, but they will fit no prob. Plus the wider they are the nicer they look from the back (at least IMO).
-Michael-
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Old 01-12-2007, 01:31 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmowry View Post
I don't see "big hp" in his sig though. On close to stock hp I wouldn't go 225.

Frank
+1

Maybe go with a 205/45/16?

http://www.edgeracing.com/2003/Mazda/Miata/bundle/3406/ w/ RS2 for $639
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Old 01-14-2007, 12:16 PM   #14
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ok first thing, you guys are the greatest
2nd, sorry it took me so long to get back to all of you.

Anyway, i want to go through another set of street tires before i go to R-comps because i am still training and dont want the R comps hiding my mistakes, but when i am ready i think i will be running the RA-1 as my street tires. ill have to try them at lest.
In the tests that i read, the best result for the RS2s was equal with the azenis while the best result, for the azenis was that they were better this averages out with the falkens on top. In the GRM test (thank you brain) the azenis won by a full second and a half second average (different drivers on a 45secon course. the last saving hope for the RS-2s (for me) is that they are available in a 225 while the azenis are only a 205, will the width difference give the kooks the edge? at the moment i am leaning to getting the lightest $150ish 30 offset hub centric rims i can find and putting the azenis on them, and giving them a try in the rain for myself. my other reason for this is that the falkens are such a golden standard, it seems that everything is compared to them, and if i am to get much out of these comparisons it should experience the azenis. also i spring is coming and it should dry out nicely. there is a auto x at the end of the month and i may see what people are tuning there.
thanks everyone, you guys freakin rock
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