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Old 07-20-2009, 05:23 PM   #1
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Default A cartoon from 1934.

Kinda eerie how many parallels can be drawn. From the Chicago Tribune, 1934.
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Old 07-20-2009, 05:29 PM   #2
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Do we even need to look as far back as 1934? I remember Obama and Bushy urging us to quickly pass some awful spending bill and anyone opposed is playing politics and is unpatriotic.

I could have sworn I just heard the same speech today, his writers just used find & replace "recovery" with "health care."
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Old 07-20-2009, 05:30 PM   #3
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Those who do not know their history....
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:24 PM   #4
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I know huh, look how communist we all turned after 1934.
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:08 PM   #5
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and look how bankrupt we are now.
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:15 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
I know huh, look how communist we all turned after 1934.
That's because people became wise as to what was happening and there was a strong opposition. That's like the people getting mad at the antivirus software company because everyone bought their software for the "big attack" that was coming, but only 20,000 computers where infected. Their conclusion was that the virus was nothing to worry about if it only affected that few of people and not that it worked so well that it stopped it from getting to the other 50,000,000 computers.

People in the 1930's were also a lot harder workers and less prone to being able to sit back and rely on the government. There is a greater percentage of americans today that are accepting of government controling many aspects of our own lives becasue it makes it easier on them and they get more for doing the same work. That is a major difference between now and then. That is what scares the hell out of me.
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:23 PM   #7
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and look how bankrupt we are now.
And whose fault is that?

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Old 07-20-2009, 07:23 PM   #8
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I love how Roosevelt is known for "bringing back hope" and "regaining faith" but not for fixing the great depression. Had there been no war...
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:29 PM   #9
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I know huh, look how communist we all turned after 1934.
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Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
Those who do not know their history....
...are destined to **** up even worse the next time that situation rolls around.
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:29 PM   #10
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needs more data:

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Old 07-20-2009, 07:38 PM   #11
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Nice try.

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Old 07-20-2009, 07:51 PM   #12
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And whose fault is that?
The incestuous relationship between the govenrment, the central bank and its monetary system, and Big Finance.

If you understood how the monetary system worked, you will understand what a scam it is and why the debt is out of control.

Fedspeak obfuscates it, but this series does a pretty damn good job 'splainin' it.
Start at chapter 6:
Crash Course Chapter 6: What Is Money? - currency | Crash Course Videos at Chris Martenson - currency, Dollar, Economy, Federal Reserve, gold, hyperinflation, money, silver

Good news is Congress is waking up, and 260+ are co sponsoring a bill to audit the secretive, privately owned Federal Reserve. That's a good start.

And once in a while a journalist does a great job showing glimpses of the seemy underbelly:
The Great American Bubble Machine : Rolling Stone

Don't let partisan bullshit distract you from learning what's going on.
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Old 07-21-2009, 04:42 AM   #13
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Give a big 'ol thank you to the genius idea of Reaganomics! Lets cut taxes but keep on spending on defence, it'll be alright, just **** the future!
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Old 07-21-2009, 01:05 PM   #14
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Ohh if life and National Politics were so simple.



Chris
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Old 07-23-2009, 04:08 AM   #15
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I love the melodrama that ensues when the "other side" wins elections. Never waste a good crisis. The Democrats are pushing policy because they can. If we turn into a European style welfare state, frankly guys - its not that bad (in fact on many points its pretty good).

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Most of the debate in the U.S. is clouded by vested interests and by ideology. Yet there is by now a rich empirical rec-ord to judge these issues scientifically. The evidence may be found by comparing a group of relatively free-market economies that have low to moderate rates of taxation and social outlays with a group of social-welfare states that have high rates of taxation and social outlays.

Not coincidentally, the low-tax, high-income countries are mostly English-speaking ones that share a direct historical lineage with 19th-century Britain and its theories of economic laissez-faire. These countries include Australia, Canada, Ireland, New Zealand, the U.K. and the U.S. The high-tax, high-income states are the Nordic social democracies, notably Denmark, Finland, Norway and Sweden, which have been governed by left-of-center social democratic parties for much or all of the post�World War II era. They combine a healthy respect for market forces with a strong commitment to antipoverty programs. Budgetary outlays for social purposes average around 27 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) in the Nordic countries and just 17 percent of GDP in the English-speaking countries.

Friedrich Von Hayek was wrong
On average, the Nordic countries outperform the Anglo-Saxon ones on most measures of economic performance. Poverty rates are much lower there, and national income per working-age population is on average higher. Unemployment rates are roughly the same in both groups, just slightly higher in the Nordic countries. The budget situation is stronger in the Nordic group, with larger surpluses as a share of GDP.

The Nordic countries maintain their dynamism despite high taxation in several ways. Most important, they spend lavishly on research and development and higher education. All of them, but especially Sweden and Finland, have taken to the sweeping revolution in information and communications technology and leveraged it to gain global competitiveness. Sweden now spends nearly 4 percent of GDP on R&D, the highest ratio in the world today. On average, the Nordic nations spend 3 percent of GDP on R&D, compared with around 2 percent in the English-speaking nations.

The Nordic states have also worked to keep social expenditures compatible with an open, competitive, market-based economic system. Tax rates on capital are relatively low. Labor market policies pay low-skilled and otherwise difficult-to-employ individuals to work in the service sector, in key quality-of-life areas such as child care, health, and support for the elderly and disabled.

The results for the households at the bottom of the income distribution are astoundingly good, especially in contrast to the mean-spirited neglect that now passes for American social policy. The U.S. spends less than almost all rich countries on social services for the poor and disabled, and it gets what it pays for: the highest poverty rate among the rich countries and an exploding prison population. Actually, by shunning public spending on health, the U.S. gets much less than it pays for, because its dependence on private health care has led to a ramshackle system that yields mediocre results at very high costs.

Von Hayek was wrong. In strong and vibrant democracies, a generous social-welfare state is not a road to serfdom but rather to fairness, economic equality and international competitiveness.
I may disagree with Jason on macroeconomic theory (on some points) but I do agree with

Quote:
Don't let partisan bullshit distract you from learning what's going on.
However on the note of a private federal reserve, I agree with the idea. The fed has to make politically unpopular moves and accountability would remove a good deal of its ability to manipulate the markets (which you disagree with in the first place).
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