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Old 12-21-2007, 11:18 AM   #41
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Yeah no doubt it works well but probably not as well as it would if it had overhead cams.
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Old 12-21-2007, 11:39 AM   #42
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I think if I had one I could get over it...according to what I've read, it's docile enough for the street and tears up the track. I have a car that has 600rwhp and it's a hand full. yeah, I'm pretty sure I could make due.
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Old 12-21-2007, 11:49 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by DropTopDrifter View Post
You know, i bet they could save some weight if they dumped that steel leaf-spring **** for rear suspension and went with a nice IRS with forged aluminum arms.....
You're letting your lack of knowledge on the 'Vette shine right through, dude!

The 'Vettes have had fully independent suspensions since the 1984 C4. And they've been using single, composite, transverse leaf springs front and rear since then as well. The single leaf spring weighs less than two traditional coil steel springs.

Secondly, I believe the control arms are already cast aluminum. I'll see if I can find some pics for you.

Edit: Yep, here ya go, cast aluminum arms front and rear:
http://seriouswheels.com/pics-2005/2...n-1024x768.jpg
http://seriouswheels.com/pics-2005/2...n-1024x768.jpg
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Old 12-21-2007, 12:01 PM   #44
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I hope you're joking.
I hope you're joking, bro. You should just quit now before you sound like a complete tool...instead of just sounding like a partial tool, as you do now.
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...come on, 100 hp per liter is cutting edge now? That too from a boosted engine?
HP-per-liter is one of the most worthless metrics. You need to at least throw in another figure to make it worthwhile...such as HP-per-liter for a given displacement.

Compare the 620+hp 6.2L LS9 to the Ferrari 599 Fiorano's 611hp 6.0L V12, and you'll begin to understand. You could say the Ferrari doesn't need a supercharger to achieve said horsepower, and I would counter with, but GM chose to use a supercharger rather than OHC heads. Same difference.

Then I would go on to point out that the LS9 will make more torque than the Ferrari at any RPM. I would further point out that the LS9 likely weighs the same, perhaps slightly less than the uber-expensive, titanium-befitted V12 and it fits in a smaller package.

What say you now?!

Another thing, do you think the other Indy teams in the 50s scoffed at the slow-revving, 4-cylinder Offenhauser-engined cars as they proceeded to dominate the sport for ~10 years? Do you think that all the teams at the 24-hrs of Lemans turned up their noses at the diesel Audis and Peugeots, as they were themselves getting pwn3d?

Doesn't really matter what your cylinder heads and combuster chambers look like if you're the one winning the races.
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Old 12-21-2007, 12:10 PM   #45
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Yeah, not many people know that. It should be mentioned that it wasnt Murcury, the Ford brand that made them. It was Mercury MARINE. Y'know those outboard boat motors? I find it funny that the biggest car manufacturer in the world couldent come up with a motor for their own car.
"Hey, my bass boat has good power, maybe we should put a MerCruiser in the new Vette?!"

And it actually happened.

Kind of like Ford wanting a good motor and asking Yamaha to make it (Taurus SHO)
You know who else Mercury Marine makes motors for? Harley Davidson. Mercury Marine makes all the engine blocks and some of the higher performance heads. Another company in Iowa makes a majority of the standard heads.

Harley Davidson doesn't make any of the engines, they just assemble them.

I've been to the Mercury plant where they make all these engines and seen some of them cast. It's a neat place.
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Old 12-21-2007, 12:44 PM   #46
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Doesn't really matter what your cylinder heads and combuster chambers look like if you're the one winning the races.
you're absolutely right. tho last i checked, GM doesn't have an F1 entry and Ferrari won constructors and drivers champ last year.

of course you can argue F1 has standardized engine displacement, induction designs and of course you'd be right. one can further be argumentative by saying F1 championship has nothing with the actual engine, ad nausea.

chosing the hp-to-litre comparo is merely a frame of reference, just like the SAT test. not 1 test is ever "perfect" but using this benchmark, adding on Chebby's own lame PR focus, C6 ZR1 is the suck.

and at $110K, i can buy a ferrari, tho merely a v8... lest we forget, F-cars aren't about pure HP/tq. they never were. Ferrari is art. Vettes are... i dunno.. exercise in futility in saving GM from absolutely boredom?
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Old 12-21-2007, 12:47 PM   #47
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Besides development costs, I'm sure packaging has a lot to do with not going OHC.

I too used to scoff at pushrod engines. But the reality is they do work well though. I have some nice interesting spintron valvemotion plots of a very large valve opening over 1 inch with an over 1000lb spring at over 10000rpm, for a very long period of time. I'd post some but I don't want to lose my very cool job before christmas

While I don't consider nascar real racing, what they do with their pushrod engines is pretty impressive considering the limitations placed on the components (restrictor plates, flat tappet lifters, etc)

Also, 650hp out of a superchaged 6.2l is pretty sad. I don't care if it has to last 100k miles.
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Old 12-21-2007, 02:18 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Brian View Post
I hope you're joking, bro. You should just quit now before you sound like a complete tool...instead of just sounding like a partial tool, as you do now.

Do you think that all the teams at the 24-hrs of Lemans turned up their noses at the diesel Audis and Peugeots, as they were themselves getting pwn3d?

Doesn't really matter what your cylinder heads and combuster chambers look like if you're the one winning the races.
You're incredibly cocky for someone who knows so little. You're the one that said high flow cylinder heads dont need OHC. You're the one that's suggesting Audi & Peugeot are the "underdog" just like the Corvette is, simply for using diesel in LeMans (far, far, far from it). That, for one, shows you're making a complete *** of yourself.
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Old 12-21-2007, 04:25 PM   #49
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you're absolutely right. tho last i checked, GM doesn't have an F1 entry and Ferrari won constructors and drivers champ last year.
And GM's been winning ALMS a metric **** ton of races with their C5 and C6R teams for several years. What's your point? GM doesn't race in F1 and Ferrari doesn't race in ALMS (I don't think any of the old 550 Maranello teams were factory-backed).
Quote:
..lest we forget, F-cars aren't about pure HP/tq. they never were. Ferrari is art. Vettes are... i dunno.. exercise in futility in saving GM from absolutely boredom?
Hey, I never said the 'Vette looks as good as a Ferrari
So you're a form-over-function man, huh? I usually prefer a faster/"uglier" car than a slower/"prettier" one, but that's personal preference. In a perfect world, I'd have both.
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Old 12-21-2007, 04:54 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by The_Pipefather View Post
You're incredibly cocky for someone who knows so little. You're the one that said high flow cylinder heads dont need OHC. You're the one that's suggesting Audi & Peugeot are the "underdog" just like the Corvette is, simply for using diesel in LeMans (far, far, far from it). That, for one, shows you're making a complete *** of yourself.
ZOMGZ, what the hell are you talking about, dude?

I never said that Audi and Peugeot are underdogs...I gauran-*******-tee you Audi is spending more on their program than just about anyone. The point I was trying to make was to all the naysayers that claims pushrods are so inferior, but, in the end, what does that one detail difference matter? The end result is what matters, right?

You completely misread my post. Oh well
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Old 12-22-2007, 03:00 AM   #51
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Efini - I didnt know that. Something made me think the HD's were Yamaha's too. Good to know.

To Whoever said GM and Ferarri dont race (F1 vs ALMS) I understand what you are saying, but there are actually plenty of Ferarris in ALMS (I dont think they are factory backed though)... And they LOOOOOOOOOOSE!!!!!

If youre not Aston or Vette, you are back of the pack.

Brian said it best:
Doesn't really matter what your cylinder heads and combuster chambers look like if you're the one winning the races.


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Old 12-22-2007, 04:58 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
I hope you're joking, bro. You should just quit now before you sound like a complete tool...instead of just sounding like a partial tool, as you do now.

HP-per-liter is one of the most worthless metrics. You need to at least throw in another figure to make it worthwhile...such as HP-per-liter for a given displacement.

Compare the 620+hp 6.2L LS9 to the Ferrari 599 Fiorano's 611hp 6.0L V12, and you'll begin to understand. You could say the Ferrari doesn't need a supercharger to achieve said horsepower, and I would counter with, but GM chose to use a supercharger rather than OHC heads. Same difference.

Then I would go on to point out that the LS9 will make more torque than the Ferrari at any RPM. I would further point out that the LS9 likely weighs the same, perhaps slightly less than the uber-expensive, titanium-befitted V12 and it fits in a smaller package.

What say you now?!

Another thing, do you think the other Indy teams in the 50s scoffed at the slow-revving, 4-cylinder Offenhauser-engined cars as they proceeded to dominate the sport for ~10 years? Do you think that all the teams at the 24-hrs of Lemans turned up their noses at the diesel Audis and Peugeots, as they were themselves getting pwn3d?

Doesn't really matter what your cylinder heads and combuster chambers look like if you're the one winning the races.
I'll still take the Ferrari over the vette anyday
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Old 12-22-2007, 06:54 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
I'll still take the Ferrari over the vette anyday
I probably would too, but not for practical reasons, mostly subjective. Thinks like feel, looks, awe factor. However I must say, with the Zr1, It would not be an automatic choice, I'd have to drive both first to make sure. Oh, and if I was the one shelling out the cash, the ZR1 might be my choice. Unless of course I hit the lottery, and then I'd probably buy both.
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Old 12-23-2007, 05:17 AM   #54
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You know, i bet they could save some weight if they dumped that steel leaf-spring **** for rear suspension and went with a nice IRS with forged aluminum arms.....
What are you talking about?? The C4, C5 and C6 Vettes already have great independent double wishbone suspensions, with light arms too. They use leaf springs instead of coil springs because those have advantage over the coil springs of not putting side loads on the shocks (but this has nothing to do with the suspension geometry ...). So, it's suspension is better than your Miata ...

The cons of the leaf spring is that it is more expensive to make than coil spring, it is harder to package in the car than a coil spring and it is more of a pain to change spring rates (many coils available on she shelves and are universal ...). So, the coil spring is a downgrade from the leafspring and used more often because it is cheaper and takes less space ...

Last edited by j_man; 12-23-2007 at 06:01 AM.
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Old 12-24-2007, 08:31 AM   #55
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Truth to be told, The Vette impresses a lot of us European Gear heads at this point. Just thought Id let you guys know before you go for each others throats. I will not pretend I know **** about what is under the shell of the Vette, but whatever they do, it is working. I have read several German and Swedish race car magazines comparing the Vette to Porsche, Lambos, Ferrari, BMW and Mercedes and many times the result is: They are just as fast if not faster, both on a proper road course and straight ahead, as the other cars, but for a lot (!!) less cash. This is pretty impressive. Now if they can only get a bit better looking interiors…
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Old 12-24-2007, 11:31 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Torkel View Post
Truth to be told, The Vette impresses a lot of us European Gear heads at this point. Just thought Id let you guys know before you go for each others throats. I will not pretend I know **** about what is under the shell of the Vette, but whatever they do, it is working. I have read several German and Swedish race car magazines comparing the Vette to Porsche, Lambos, Ferrari, BMW and Mercedes and many times the result is: They are just as fast if not faster, both on a proper road course and straight ahead, as the other cars, but for a lot (!!) less cash. This is pretty impressive. Now if they can only get a bit better looking interiors…
I was in Germany for 4 years back in the 90's...Germans would pay a lot for vettes back them (C-4s) If you had won in Germany, you could always turn a profit selling to a german.
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Old 12-25-2007, 06:00 PM   #57
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We pay a lot more for cars in general here in the EU then you guys do in the US, probably due to taxes and sales volume. Even if a Vette is more expensive in Germany then in the US, it is a lot (think half price) cheaper then a Porsche. Especially now when the Dollar is so low to the Euro.

Side notes: I checked the prices of Miatas with the Swedish Miata club before moving home from the US (I am swedish, just living in Germany) and ended up shipping my car over the ocean. We are truly talking double price for a used NB Miata. A friend of mine in Charlotte, SC are into Porsches. So I check for parts and cars for him in Germany, but the prices in the US are always lower. Suck huh?! Anyway, kind of a thread drift. Carry on, everyone.
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Old 12-26-2007, 01:44 AM   #58
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Also, 650hp out of a superchaged 6.2l is pretty sad. I don't care if it has to last 100k miles.
fo sho

and i think driving a vette would kind of degrade one's social order, i've never seen anyone under 35 driving a vette, except for that mexican drug lord down the street who stole it and riced it out
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Old 12-27-2007, 08:59 PM   #59
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fo sho

and i think driving a vette would kind of degrade one's social order, i've never seen anyone under 35 driving a vette, except for that mexican drug lord down the street who stole it and riced it out
Must be where you live.
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