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Old 02-06-2014, 12:56 PM   #621
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Another alternative I just came across on YouTube: Hi Trek Cycles Electric Mountain Bikes and Cruisers - HOME - Citrus Heights, CA

Turnkey, 52 MPH / 45 mile range for only a grand more than Specialized's bullshit Turbo.
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:56 PM   #622
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I read something online from a guy who worked for Specialized about their eBike program. Apparently they have developed some super awesome hardware that makes this DIY stuff look silly but it will never get released in the US and may never go to production. This is apparently a lawyer driven restriction as they are afraid of the liability, plus most states have pretty silly laws as to what is considered a "motorcycle" :(
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:05 PM   #623
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Oh I'm sure on the R&D side they have all manner of things they are capable of. But a big company like Specialized putting out an illegal bike would draw too much attention. The smaller vendors probably only get away with it because they're much less "visible".

BTW just in case you want to read about e-bike laws state-by-state:
Electric bicycle laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

20 MPH seems to be the default speed limit. Spoilsports.
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Old 02-10-2014, 05:42 PM   #624
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Joe, I was reading another thread here:

https://www.miataturbo.net/insert-bs...z-et-al-73535/

And it gave me another noob question to ask you. The throttle programming you do with cycle analyst, is this so you can add a (for lack of a better term) lag to the throttle? I find it hard to modulate from a stop. I'd like to go very soft from a stop but the thing really wants to get up and go if you just crack the thumb throttle a little bit. I'm glad I have the battery ahead of the motor because it wants to do a wheelie!
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Old 02-10-2014, 06:06 PM   #625
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And it gave me another noob question to ask you. The throttle programming you do with cycle analyst, is this so you can add a (for lack of a better term) lag to the throttle?
Sort-of.

The problem here is that the throttle translation in a stock controller simply maps it to PWM of voltage, and the response of a BLDC motor to voltage is non-linear, varying with RPM.

Basically, I have the CycleAnalyst doing the following:

1: Re-mapping the throttle so that it becomes a closed-loop current request, rather than an open-loop voltage request. This made a *HUGE* difference in how easy it was to control, especially starting out from a stop. This way, 10% throttle always equals 10% of maximum current*, regardless of motor speed.

2: Impose an easily-adjustable maximum current limit. (Presently set at 25A)

3: Read a temperature sensor on the motor windings, and implement a gradual shutdown (by a scalable current-limit) if the motor starts to get too hot. It doesn't just shut off, rather it starts dialing back the maximum current, creating a sort of limp-home mode.

4: Provide an accurate battery state-of-charge gauge, by actually measuring cumulative watt-hours consumed and subtracting them from a known "full" capacity.


* = One thing to note is that the throttles themselves tend not to be entirely linear, either. This is a fault of their cheap mechanical construction. On mine, there's a big dead spot in the middle, and the first and last 20% of physical travel probably account for about 75% of the electrical range.

Fixing this was on the To-Do list for the CA when I stopped paying attention to its development about 6 months ago, having deemed it "good enough" for my needs. It's probably done by now.
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Old 02-13-2014, 12:33 PM   #626
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Is item 1 on your list something I could do without a Joe Perez level of electronics competence?
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Old 02-13-2014, 12:52 PM   #627
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Is item 1 on your list something I could do without a Joe Perez level of electronics competence?
They're actually all pretty easy. A lot of it depends on your controller. The CycleAnalyst has become a sufficiently standard-ish device in the industry that a lot of controllers come pre-wired with a dedicated port for it to plug into. If yours is of this style, then all you need to do is modify the throttle wiring such that it interfaces to the CA rather than directly to the controller.

In my case, I went way overboard with the wiring because I wanted everything to be perfect and pretty, with as few interconnects as possible.


Info here: The Cycle Analyst Homepage - Ebike Amp-Hour and Watt Meter note: IGNORE the section entitled "Throttle Over-Ride Details." That is obsolete data relevant to the previous-generation design, before the CA actually had a provision for the throttle to loop completely through it. To do #1, you will need to perform the mod described on page 20, under the section "9.3 Current Throttle or Cruise Control," of The Manual which you can download here.

All in all, it's about on par with installing something like a Voodoo box or PPPowercard, and MUCH easier than a Megasquirt.
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:13 PM   #628
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If I'm reading the diagram in the CA manual correctly, this is a modification to the external wiring and doesn't require soldering on the board, yes?
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:40 PM   #629
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At one time, it was necessary to do a tiny bit of soldering on the board, as the "T" pad was not brought out by default.

This may have changed since I got mine- it was a beta unit.

Even if not, it's just soldering one wire to a pad.
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:58 PM   #630
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:54 PM   #631
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I have highly mixed feelings about this.

On the one hand, it's a really cool idea. They've engineered it specifically around the Citibike, which is my daily-driver bike on the NYC side of my commute, and they're taken special advantage of certain peculiarities of that specific frame (such as the front docking triangle) in the design.



And yet...

I was a strong and highly evangelical proponent of e-biking when I lived in SoCal, a region dominated by mountainous terrain which makes power-assist practically a necessity for practical bicycle commuting by those of us who are not Olympic-level riders.

That said, I've found that in regions where the terrain is mostly flat (eg: those regions which comprise the majority of the territory serviced by the Alta / Bixi bikeshare systems), power-assist simply isn't necessary. I haven't ridden my e-bike in several months- it's just sitting there in the hallway taking up space. I find the combination of my $150 Wal-Mart Schwinn (on the NJ side) and Citibike (on the NY side) to be perfectly satisfactory.



Sidebar: I wonder if I've ridden the same Citibike twice? The Citibike app does a fine job of logging my trips, but it doesn't record frame numbers. There needs to be an android app which lets me snap a photo of the reg number on the frame before each trip, and keeps a log of this information relative to date, time, and GPS coordinates. It should alert me any time I happen to hope on a bike which I've ridden before.

Sidebar II: Seriously? Barclays Cycle Hire in London has more total bikes than NYC Citibike? This injustice shall not stand!

Last edited by Joe Perez; 03-08-2014 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:01 AM   #632
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I suppose if your commute was a bit longer it might start to make more sense. Kinda cool. I'd want the case all black though.
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:51 AM   #633
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Yeah, now that I think about it, I can see some applications where it makes sense. Consider that Citibike isn't limited to just Manhattan- there are a lot of stations in Brooklyn as well (Dumbo, Navy Yard, Brooklyn Heights, Williamsburg, etc).

If I lived out in one of those neighborhoods and was commuting every day across the Brooklyn Bridge or the Williamsburg Bridge, I'd probably want some power assist, especially on hot summer mornings.
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Old 03-11-2014, 02:50 PM   #634
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Koto, park the bike and drive the NSX to work so I can stalk you

Went and looked at some bikes over the weekend, still not sure what I want. Damn 29" wheeled bikes feel HUUUUUGE. My 30" inseam probably isn't helping.
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Old 03-11-2014, 05:07 PM   #635
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Went and looked at some bikes over the weekend, still not sure what I want. Damn 29" wheeled bikes feel HUUUUUGE. My 30" inseam probably isn't helping.
After the theft of my previous cheap bike, I decided to give a 29er a try. Took a while to get used to it, but now I very much prefer them.
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Old 03-14-2014, 06:39 PM   #636
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I've been riding 29ers exclusively since 2010, I don't think I could go back to a 26" wheel. The 29" wheel soaks up the bumps so much better.

BTW, ebike update: I got complacent with my pre-ride checks and the rear wheel worked itself loose. First one side of the MAC motor came off (the side with the brake disc attached) and then the motor spun its axle inside the dropouts. No beuno. The frame is just about ruined and the motor ripped some of the smaller wires when they got wrapped around the axle.

New 8T motor en route from China, riding my Rockhopper to work in the meantime. I'll probably just end up putting the electrics onto the RH when the motor arrives, and I'll have a baller all-terrain e-bike with hydro discs and ****.

I lock my bike inside the building I work in now so I feel pretty ok with electrifying the expensive (relatively) bike.

EDIT - EO2K, where abouts are you?
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:14 AM   #637
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
So, some follow-up.

Today when I grabbed a bike out of the dock at Broadway & 33rd, they'd all been tagged with little fliers stuck into the handlebar advertising this new system. Surprised it took them this long to directly address the target market.





I'm actually considering getting one. Do I actually need it in the same way I needed e-assist in SoCal? Heck no. But it does get warm here in the summertime, and there's no shower at work.
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:27 AM   #638
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Quote:
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So, some follow-up.

Today when I grabbed a bike out of the dock at Broadway & 33rd, they'd all been tagged with little fliers stuck into the handlebar advertising this new system. Surprised it took them this long to directly address the target market.





I'm actually considering getting one. Do I actually need it in the same way I needed e-assist in SoCal? Heck no. But it does get warm here in the summertime, and there's no shower at work.
Nice, but with my luck I would buy it and the Citybike would be discontinued. They are right now in financial trouble.
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:38 AM   #639
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Joe: SMARTER OPTION

Make a rack so you can have a CITYSHAREROLLER SHARE. Place them around the city next to the bikes. Profit.
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:19 AM   #640
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Nice, but with my luck I would buy it and the Citybike would be discontinued. They are right now in financial trouble.
All they need to do is triple the cost that they charge us annual pass holders. $95 a year is insanely cheap, and we will gladly pay much more than that to keep the system running.

For the purpose of comparison, the alternative to Citibike for most of us would be an unlimited-ride subway pass, and those cost $112 per MONTH, in addition to being slower and less convenient.

Still, it's not like the device is useless if Citibike goes away. The company offers adapters to mount the device on a variety of "normal" bikes- all you have to do is replicate the front docking triangle that the Citibikes use to latch into their docking stations. I'm sure it's not as good as a dedicated hub-motor system, but for those of us who don't have a secure location to park and charge our bikes at night, this would still be an excellent system.



Quote:
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Make a rack so you can have a CITYSHAREROLLER SHARE. Place them around the city next to the bikes. Profit.
Interesting idea...
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