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Old 07-03-2013, 10:35 AM   #1
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Lightbulb Electric Supercharger with Dyno Results

This is on an otherwise stock Scion FR-S.





Overlaid with a Vortech supercharged car on the same dyno.



Thread with all the details
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Electric Supercharger with Dyno Results-imag1021_zpsca10b0ee.jpg   Electric Supercharger with Dyno Results-imag1018_zpsf57ffca3.jpg   Electric Supercharger with Dyno Results-imag1022_zpse0544e26.jpg  

Last edited by Scrappy Jack; 07-03-2013 at 12:23 PM. Reason: Made the link to the original thread more obvious.
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Old 07-03-2013, 10:51 AM   #2
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I wish in understood what I was looking at.


can you please give me cliffs on each setup for the following pulls:

LZY372.003 - Stock?
LZY372.004
LZY372.007
LZY372.011
S13057.003 - Vortec S/C
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:09 AM   #3
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So, an electronic supercharger made 30hp? Any more info on the kit? The thing must push some decent air to still be making boost at redline, this can't be your average ebay turbonator superchager.
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:13 AM   #4
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That is incredibly interesting. It seems as though because this was a first attempt he hasn't even really optimized everything for the most possible benefit.
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:26 AM   #5
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Simply at a glance, judging by the fact that they are using an RC-style three-phase BLDC motor and a suitably beefy motor controller, this is one "electric supercharger" which I could actually believe might have a positive effect. I'm not sure if I quite believe +80 ft/lbs (that dip in the "before" run seems fishy to me) but it's something anyway.

Nice to see people taking a more serious approach to the subject.
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:33 AM   #6
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The hair dryer made 2-3 hp from the way i see it... Either that or it lost 2-3 hp everywhere. Of course the OP cant be any more vague with what each plot is.

It could also be hooked up on and off in which case you LOSE power since the powered off hair dryer is now slowing the air flow.
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:34 AM   #7
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I totally missed the "Info on the Kit" link in the OP. Pretty cool that it actually seems to work.
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:42 AM   #8
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Joe, perhaps you can shed some light on how much power from the electric motor it takes to make 1 psi?

There was an article on a twin screw supercharger setup where the guy used electric motors, Not sure if it was 3 or 6 or some stupid number but thats how many motors it took to provide the 20hp required to turn the sc.
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:45 AM   #9
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Found it, 3 large motors.

Nissan Altima Left Front View Photo 1





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Electric Supercharger with Dyno Results-0406tur_knight02_z.jpg   Electric Supercharger with Dyno Results-0406tur_04z-nissan_altima-electric_supercharger.jpg   Electric Supercharger with Dyno Results-0406tur_06z-nissan_altima-trunk_batteries.jpg  
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:48 AM   #10
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is that an altima or sentra?
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:21 PM   #11
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I wish in understood what I was looking at.


can you please give me cliffs on each setup for the following pulls:

LZY372.003 - Stock
LZY372.004 - With electric supercharger
LZY372.007 - With electric supercharger and tune?
LZY372.011 - I think that's electric SC and tune, but not sure
S13057.003 - Vortec S/C
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
[...]I'm not sure if I quite believe +80 ft/lbs (that dip in the "before" run seems fishy to me) but it's something anyway.
That dip in the stock torque graph is a well-documented phenomenon with these cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
The hair dryer made 2-3 hp from the way i see it... Either that or it lost 2-3 hp everywhere. Of course the OP cant be any more vague with what each plot is.
If only someone had included a link in the original post that went directly to the thread that contained all the information and lots more pictures...

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Old 07-03-2013, 12:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Joe, perhaps you can shed some light on how much power from the electric motor it takes to make 1 psi?
Way too many variables to say with any certainty. But that Datsun article you dug up gives a good idea as to the scale of the problem.


It's not quite apples-to-apples. The centrifugal compressor depicted on the Scion should provide slightly better efficiency (provided they can get the RPMs they need, which is possible, since some of those RC motors can do >50,000 RPM unloaded), and the BLDC motor itself is massively more efficient than the brushed starter motors.

But probably not 10x more efficient.



I honestly can't give you an answer here. Like I said, I am doubtful about the specific numbers which they are claiming, but of all of the cheapish "electric motor connected to a centrifugal fan" designs which I have seen, this is the only one which looks as though it might actually have the potential to do something, judging solely by the apparent quality of the parts involved (specifically the motor and controller.)
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Old 07-03-2013, 03:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
is that an altima or sentra?
Altima at 7-8 psi.

Heres the article. http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/04..._supercharger/

To make that "75% torque" i'm expecting at least 3-4 psi.. if it takes 3 giant motors to power a twin screw sc, i highly doubt that little 1.5" motor will be able to deliver 10-15hp at 50+k rpm to turn the centrifugal setup.

Long story short unless the tester is the op and a worthy source, i'd say theres some 50% dyno correction going on.

Last edited by triple88a; 07-03-2013 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 07-03-2013, 03:07 PM   #14
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That to me looks like a lot of extra weight. 3 large batteries, thick wires, 3 large motors. It had better make some decent power to add all of that. Obviously a turbo or traditional supercharger adds weight too, but they also increase power dramatically. I might be reading those graphs wrong but doesn't look that great to me.
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:37 PM   #15
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Yeah,
3 batteries, even little ones, is a TON of weight. Then the motors. Then you still have what looks like a normal supercharger, just not connected via belt. fail fail fail

I always laugh when people overcomplicate the everliving crap out of things only to end with mediocrity and fail hard.

You want more torque outa your brz/frs? get the Innovate mp62 sc
You want more torque outa your miata? mp62 sc it
You want a LOT more torque and power from your miata? turbo it
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Yeah,
3 batteries, even little ones, is a TON of weight. Then the motors. Then you still have what looks like a normal supercharger, just not connected via belt. fail fail fail
10psi at 1k rpm sounds like fun though.
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:09 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
10psi at 1k rpm sounds like fun though.
Sounds like a new set of rods to me.
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:12 PM   #18
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lolol just get a 100 shot of nitrous and spray when starting the car...ALLOFIT at 300rplm

/Techsalvager
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:15 PM   #19
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That starter motor driven roots setup is old as hell, I remember seeing it many years ago. Lead acid batteries, starter motors, roots blower, on an automatic toyota. Nothing about that recipe is good.

I found the specs on that brushless centrifugal unit at FTS-TQ25024V - New site

Max airflow: ~400 CFM
Supported engine power: up to 250 HP
Typical base engine HP: 100-240
Typical peak torque gain: 30-40%
Pressure range: up to 1.3 PR
Motor efficiency: ~90-94%
Motor type: brushless w/ 3 leads
Compressor efficiency: 72-74%
Lubrication: sealed ceramic bearings
Weight: 4.0 lbs.
Drive power: 3500 Watts
Rating @ 20 C: 2 minutes (continuous)
Rating @ 50 C: 1 minutes (continuous)
Maintenance: None





Im assuming it runs on 12v (so 3 cell LiPo could be used instead of lead acid car batteries) and assuming the 3500 watts is accurate, that would mean that it can pull nearly 300A
I dont know how much its really pulling to make some good boost, but I think its safe to assume it would take some serious battery to run it. LiPo or LiFePo is going to be a must, imo.
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:23 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
That starter motor driven roots setup is old as hell, I remember seeing it many years ago. Lead acid batteries, starter motors, roots blower, on an automatic toyota. Nothing about that recipe is good.
Last time i checked Altima wasnt made by Toyota.
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