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Old 04-11-2013, 05:47 PM   #1
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Default FR-S has roll oversteer built in?

Willall Racing - WR310 WRX STi

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The Toyota version of the 86/BRZ features a strong tendency to roll oversteer at high speed which was one of the first parts of the handling character that was to be dialed out.
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:11 PM   #2
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I've read that the FR-S tends to be a little more edgy on the handing and tends to oversteer when pushed. Where the BRZ is a little more "refined" and doesn't tend to twitch on corner exit. I believe they use a slightly different spring rate in the rear is really the only difference.
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:18 AM   #3
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The scion is for ricers, so they make it a driftoto machine.

Subaru is for understeer loving lesbians, so they make it plow.
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:30 AM   #4
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yeah except its exactly the opposite: the brz is the one that has the stiffer rears
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:17 AM   #5
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yeah except its exactly the opposite: the brz is the one that has the stiffer rears
That doesn't match up with anything I've heard from the automotive press. IIRC, it's mainly damping curves that make the FRS more twitchy.
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Old 04-12-2013, 11:11 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Car and Driver
At the limit, you’ll find the key difference between the Subaru and the Scion. Go screaming into a turn or hop on the gas too early exiting one, and the Subaru simply understeers—perhaps for the benefit of drivers familiar with the brand’s all-wheel-drive products. The Scion uses softer springs and stiffer shocks, and it has a sensitivity to driver inputs that makes it feel alive. Too much or too little throttle upsets the Scion’s balance, sending the car into an easily controlled drift. Its behavior reminds us of the dearly departed first-generation Honda S2000. It’s not impossible to get the Subaru to oversteer—deliberately timed and moderated inputs will coax the tail out—it’s just not going to catch you by surprise. In either car, though, the transition from cornering to drifting is gradual, and the low curb weight—about 2800 pounds—helps make it easy to rein in a slide before you tailwhip your neighbor’s mailbox.
The above goes along with most every review I've read.
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:19 PM   #7
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"Roll oversteer" is different than static balance from springs/sways. Transient behavior from the shock tuning is different still.

Roll oversteer is a geometry thing. From the original link:

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Without changing spring rates, but by changing rear suspension geometry and a carefully applied program of anti-roll bar development and bushing alterations the stability and handling of the 86 have been transformed. All of this has been achieved without changing the playful nature of the 86 in general driving conditions. High speed handling is now up there with the very best sports coupes around, and this is reflected in the lap times and general performance that WR86 delivers.
I wonder if there really is roll oversteer geometry in the car.
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:32 PM   #8
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It might also be a case of trying to justify a 2500$ price tag for a swaybar + bushing package.
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Old 04-12-2013, 05:38 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by damir130 View Post
It might also be a case of trying to justify a 2500$ price tag for a swaybar + bushing package.
This. Nossa senhora those prices are absolutely OUTRAGEOUS.
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:59 PM   #10
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WTF I didn't actually read the link until you said that. $4k for exhaust and a tune too? Is that normal for newer cars or is this just first-to-market price gouging? I mean 4k for ~40ft-lbs and 50hp?
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:38 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
WTF I didn't actually read the link until you said that. $4k for exhaust and a tune too? Is that normal for newer cars or is this just first-to-market price gouging? I mean 4k for ~40ft-lbs and 50hp?
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:39 PM   #12
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The GT-86 is something like a $60k car in OZ.
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:42 PM   #13
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Sorry, this is my first foray into modding cars. Everything for the Miata is so cheap that I am almost always surprised at how much parts for other cars (besides hondas) cost.
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:31 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
WTF I didn't actually read the link until you said that. $4k for exhaust and a tune too? Is that normal for newer cars or is this just first-to-market price gouging? I mean 4k for ~40ft-lbs and 50hp?
Maybe 4k for a header, mid pipe, cat back, intake, and tune.
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:32 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Scrappy Jack View Post
The above goes along with most every review I've read.
I stand corrected.
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:58 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Midtenn View Post
Maybe 4k for a header, mid pipe, cat back, intake, and tune.
So let's break this down. Intake should be $400max , assuming it replaces virtually all intake tubing and includes proper heat shielding/box with high quality materials.

Cat-back: another $400 or so, on the expensiveside still. Up to $800 total.

MMid pipe: maybe $$300? $1100 total...

Header: if its a grand, which is very spend for a header, that brings the total to $2100. So... with overpriced standard parts, that's $1900 for a tune and installation.

That's what I like to call ballzing ridiculous.
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:05 AM   #17
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I love how some automotive journalists are gigantic pussies and afraid of the S2K.

Jkav and Dave Coleman are notable exceptions to this generalization.
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:10 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
So... with overpriced standard parts, that's $1900 for a tune and installation.

That's what I like to call ballzing ridiculous.
Does this stuff need to be CARB approved? I can see how that could raise the price considerably.
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:13 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
So let's break this down. Intake should be $400max , assuming it replaces virtually all intake tubing and includes proper heat shielding/box with high quality materials.

Cat-back: another $400 or so, on the expensiveside still. Up to $800 total.

MMid pipe: maybe $$300? $1100 total...

Header: if its a grand, which is very spend for a header, that brings the total to $2100. So... with overpriced standard parts, that's $1900 for a tune and installation.

That's what I like to call ballzing ridiculous.
It does say the exhaust components are titanium which ups the price substantially. I do like the BBK for $4,250 though...
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:15 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndGearRubber View Post
That doesn't match up with anything I've heard from the automotive press. IIRC, it's mainly damping curves that make the FRS more twitchy.
sounds like they added more rear bump travel and increased the front sway bar or subtracted the rear.
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