Fraud - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Insert BS here A place to discuss anything you want

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-05-2010, 10:39 PM   #1
Boost Pope
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,915
Default Fraud

So, the Honda CR-Z "Sport Hybrid" has hit the showrooms. EPA rated fuel economy is 31 MPG city, 37 MPG highway with the manual transmission, 35/39 with the CVT.

For purposes of comparison, a late 80's CR-X with the 1.5L engine got 41 MPG city / 50 MPG highway, again using the "new" EPA measurement system.

Granted, the CR-Z makes about 30HP more (combined gas/electric, assuming a full battery charge), though the CR-X weighs 850 lbs less.

Why are we bothering with this ****?
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 10:42 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (30)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Va Beach
Posts: 7,282
Total Cats: 0
Default

I ain't sold on all this hybrid ****.
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
levnubhin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 10:56 PM   #3
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: onion city,ca
Posts: 428
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Why are we bothering with this ****?
too true. give me a na miata with a 1.5liter turbo diesel getting 75mpg and i'll be a happy puppy.

most egregious example i've seen: bmw x6 activehybrid. 4liter twin turbo v8 hybrid getting... wait for it... 18mpg. what are they thinking?
jasonb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 10:57 PM   #4
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

I'm using this example as frequently as possible...where is the progress?
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 11:03 PM   #5
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 1,523
Total Cats: 4
Default

Nowait, lighter cars are more efficient?
webby459 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 11:12 PM   #6
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Posts: 2,791
Total Cats: 71
Default

my heated seats, 10 speaker in car surround and Xm/BT/navi/DVD and curtain airbags wont make an impact on weight, they are only like 10lbs each.

:P
shlammed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 11:12 PM   #7
Elite Member
iTrader: (11)
 
Trent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,625
Total Cats: 5
Default

A coworker has an 89 CRX HF, and it does indeed get fantastic gas mileage. It's also tiny, even compared to my Miata. The CRZ at least seems like a bigger car. Don't forget all the air bags and safety structure that the CRX never dreamed of having. Still, I really would rather have a nice turbo diesel and skip all this hybrid crap. Stupid California and their particulate emissions standards, ruining it for the rest of us.
Trent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 11:20 PM   #8
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lompoc, CA
Posts: 579
Total Cats: 12
Default

The problem comes down to the fact that people aren't willing to give up all of their gadgets and crap so that the car can be really light weight. Not to mention all the new safety standards of every variety that make light cars more difficult to build. And on top of it all is the price. Reducing weight in areas that don't involve cutting comforts (i.e. carbon fiber parts) are expensive. Build a crx with modern, lighter materials, and that same hybrid engine would probably do quite well.
baron340 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 11:33 PM   #9
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

whatever happened to direct injection and stratified charge super lean burn motors?

and when are cars going to start having a cogeneration plant in the exhaust?
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 11:33 PM   #10
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,107
Total Cats: 518
Default

I like their commercial. It features a shot of the digital speedometer going from 20-22mph.
curly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 11:46 PM   #11
Newb
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 43
Total Cats: 1
Default

Evil car makers build cars that stupid consumers want to buy, while dysfunctional government stumbles about in the dark.
proto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 11:52 PM   #12
I'm a terrible person
iTrader: (19)
 
FRT_Fun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,293
Total Cats: 180
Default

I could fix everything in a day.

And yes that car is fraud, although I think it looks sexy.
FRT_Fun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 11:55 PM   #13
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,185
Total Cats: 2,582
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
So, the Honda CR-Z "Sport Hybrid" has hit the showrooms. EPA rated fuel economy is 31 MPG city, 37 MPG highway with the manual transmission, 35/39 with the CVT.

For purposes of comparison, a late 80's CR-X with the 1.5L engine got 41 MPG city / 50 MPG highway, again using the "new" EPA measurement system.

Granted, the CR-Z makes about 30HP more (combined gas/electric, assuming a full battery charge), though the CR-X weighs 850 lbs less.

Why are we bothering with this ****?
I'm no longer a big fan of hybrids. Not because I think they're phoney, but because I think its stupid to overpay for them when the annual savings aren't that spectacular.(we had 2 and still have one, an 05 Honda civic hybrid),

but in a nutshell: drive both and you'll know why.

One is basic as all ****. Power nothing, noisy, uncomfortable, and has the basic "must have" parts. It is light and basic and therefore efficient.


The other has tons of interior and luggage space, way more comfy interior, a/c, cd changer, climate control, power everything (except seats), etc etc etc. Its efficiency is achieved through recycling some of the unused energy produced by the engine.
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 12:08 AM   #14
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: MA
Posts: 436
Total Cats: 1
Default

My problem with hybrids is that the process to build them pollutes more than buying a used car and maintaining it, even if it gets half the gas mileage.
redfred18t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 12:12 AM   #15
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,185
Total Cats: 2,582
Default

That I can't argue about since I don't really even know the process and all that stuff.

But

Our civic consistently gets 42 mixed driving right now, this is with the wife driving half the time and she sucks at trying to keep the mileage up. When I drove it to work which was mainly 45-65mph highways I would average between 49-54.
The worst we ever got was 32 when it was hot as ***** and ac was constantly on and constant traffic/stop-go city driving.
Average.
This is in a heavy *** civic sedan, with enough to fit 4 fairly comfortably (unless you're a 6"+ giant).


I hate the damn thing (for other reasons lol) but I can't really say its THAT bad at gas mileage. a/c is decent. stereo is actually GREAT. handling is not bad at all either.

Is it slow? omfg hell yes. thats one of the things I hate about it. a prius is 100 times faster.
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 01:02 AM   #16
Elite Member
iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Central-ish VA
Posts: 4,449
Total Cats: 16
Default

Love my used 1st gen insight. Bought it cheap (<$6k) and it gets 50mpg @ 80mph (60mpg @ 70mph). I could give 2 ***** about the environment, it saves me money on gas. Has decent acceleration, no problems passing cars, and can easily maintain highway speeds because of its low drag. Looks a little like a spaceship but wtf do I care. Used hybrids are pretty cheap and worth a look if they can use reg unleaded.

Most of the cost savings fuel wise for a diesel are over rated because of the difference in price between diesel and reg unleaded in most parts of the country. You'd have to get like 20% more mpg vs a gas hybrid for it to even be equal where I live.

Again, not about the environment for me, its about money.
neogenesis2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 01:13 AM   #17
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Shalimar, FL
Posts: 965
Total Cats: 7
Default

If we used small turbodiesel engines we could return 50mpg on plenty of small to mid size commuter cars. I mean, Europe's only been doing it for decades. Most gas hybrids are a "feel good" for the consumer.

We're not going to see a shift from current production vehicles like this for a few reasons, the main two being gov't and infrastructure. Our country isn't set up to dispense diesel and the cost of that changeover is apparently too much to be acceptable -- so we'll continue to put money into other technologies that aren't a better alternative to diesel in their current state. There is most certainly a need to test out hybrids, hydrogen, ethanol cars, etc. as we need the proof and experience of what does and doesn't work, but in the meantime there needs to be a stopgap that'll at least push us in the right direction. Reworking the gas infrastructure for diesel means that we can go ahead and put equipment in place that we could use for alternative fuels (modular/multi-use pumps?) in the future while saving gas now.

People need to face it: the fuel that drives society for the next couple of centuries is going to come from oil. So let's maximize that fuel's potential with engines/vehicles that aren't shitty hybrids. Some companies are working in the right direction: Ford is working on shifting it's V8 market to turbo V6s. No, the benefit isn't much if anything right now, but the eventual consumer shift and spending will allow them to put more money into R&D into turbocharging and direct injection. Hybrids aren't going to be viable until we have a good way to store reclaimed energy -- something batteries can't do yet. So why not put current money into making diesels since we already have that technology and save that R&D money for battery or flywheel tech instead of making new and shitty cars? Why not save the technology for when it's truly viable instead of wasting money on half-assed production when it could be spent on R&D?
messiahx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 01:16 AM   #18
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 174
Total Cats: 0
Default

This car doesn't get as good mpg because it produces zero emmisions. The Insight still produces a little CO2. Also the CR-Z is actually decently quick and handles pretty well from what a lot of reviews have stated. I for one could care less about emmissons as my cars going to have a straight pipe 3" turbo back. lol But like neogenesis2004 said: used hybrids are actually at good prices now.
weezerfan5487 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 01:24 AM   #19
Elite Member
iTrader: (24)
 
kotomile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 7,578
Total Cats: 40
Default

To play devil's advocate with the CR-Z/CR-X thing, feature/safety bloat has had an impact. Just think of all the things a new model today is supposed to do well compared with a late '80s or early '90s car. It needs to be gentle to pedestrians in front of it, coddle its operator in airbags if there's a crash, to compete (and appeal to youths) it needs a "bitchin'" stereo, etc. etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
whatever happened to direct injection and stratified charge super lean burn motors?
DI we have, but to use one example on stratified injection, the Euro market VW FSI motors use stratified injection and ours do not, citing the need to conform to our more stringent NOx standard.

Interestingly, the engine in the EG Civic VX had a cool lean-burn feature, where one intake valve remained closed at low engine speeds and used a VTEC-like system (called VTEC-E) to open the second valve at something like 2300 RPM. From idle to 2300ish, it burned very, very lean, and got away with it because, I'm told, of the furious swirling turbulence using just one intake valve caused. Some later Honda engines used this "VTEC-E" and also conventional "VTEC" on the same engine.
kotomile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 01:32 AM   #20
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,185
Total Cats: 2,582
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
Love my used 1st gen insight. Bought it cheap (<$6k) and it gets 50mpg @ 80mph (60mpg @ 70mph). I could give 2 ***** about the environment, it saves me money on gas. Has decent acceleration, no problems passing cars, and can easily maintain highway speeds because of its low drag. Looks a little like a spaceship but wtf do I care. Used hybrids are pretty cheap and worth a look if they can use reg unleaded.

Most of the cost savings fuel wise for a diesel are over rated because of the difference in price between diesel and reg unleaded in most parts of the country. You'd have to get like 20% more mpg vs a gas hybrid for it to even be equal where I live.

Again, not about the environment for me, its about money.
One of the best hybrids out there IMHO.

It looks like a shitstained *****. Probably the ugliest car out there.
But perform great and get great gas mileage it indeed does.

My bro had an 01 or 02 5 speed. Chirped 2nd gear like a boss
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anybody in San Jose want to kick a dirtbag's ass for me? sixshooter Insert BS here 49 10-02-2014 07:36 PM
Voter fraud bbundy Current Events, News, Politics 55 11-06-2012 11:52 PM
Source code of voting machines - and potential evidence of voter fraud blaen99 Current Events, News, Politics 8 06-25-2012 01:22 PM
How To Truly Take Back America mgeoffriau Current Events, News, Politics 19 11-21-2010 02:15 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:39 AM.