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Old 07-17-2009, 03:11 PM   #1
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Old 07-17-2009, 03:17 PM   #2
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Ok i only got about two paragraphs in when i started to see the "article" was more a of a pitch for the xede, intercoolers and all that jazz. I really dont get the point. I must be stupid.
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Old 07-17-2009, 03:21 PM   #3
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i just find it funny that cosworth is pulling production and blaming it on the pistons.
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Old 07-17-2009, 05:17 PM   #4
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Saw that earlier and piped in with my 2 cents. Cosworth must have been following the FFS business model. While they shouldn't have passed the buck by blaming pistons at least they did the right thing and pulled the product. Tom? He's still killin motors.

Are the supercharger companies so ignorant they can't figure out fuel and tune saves motors?
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Old 07-17-2009, 05:19 PM   #5
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ive heard someone with the cosworth had the sniper tuning mod done, had like 15:1 in boost.
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Old 07-17-2009, 05:21 PM   #6
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I didn't read any of that thread... I jsut saw the bigget ******* flaming *** gaping ****** ******* skin-flute strokin' pipe polishing *** pirate ever...... W T F is "sausage king"...... HOEEEEEE LEEEEEE FAAAKING CHIT.
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Old 07-17-2009, 05:44 PM   #7
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Ok i only got about two paragraphs in when i started to see the "article" was more a of a pitch for the xede, intercoolers and all that jazz. I really dont get the point. I must be stupid.
I haven't followed it from the beginning, but it sounds like a few motors were broken with Cosworth SCs on them, so Cosworth pulled their SCs from the market and blamed the failures on weak motors. Corky's contention is that the failures of the Cosworths were due to knock as a result of poor tuning, not weak motors. He then gives lots of details on how his turbo systems can be tuned to operate safely and points out that none of the turboed NCs have blown up yet whereas three Cosworth SCed ones have. Basically, it's a lengthy counter to Cosworth's claim that the motors are inherently weak, a notion that could negatively impact Corky's as well as Mazda's business if left unchallenged.

Looking at Cosworth's website it appears that the SC came with a new fuel pump, injectors, and the means to reflash the ECU with their fuel & timing map. Clearly it was intended to be an install-and-forget system, and Corky details why that's a false notion with FI cars. Anyone here who has a Megasquirt and has loaded somebody else's .msq can tell you that there is enough variation even on stock motors that it runs a tad rich here, a tad lean there, etc. Not optimal or safe.

Who the hell bought one of those after seeing Cosworth's site? The phrase "engine damage" or "engine failure" appears no less than 9 times on that page! It doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

And yeah, needz moar pc-pros.
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Old 07-17-2009, 05:57 PM   #8
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Thread was hella gay, but it was even gayer that Gary closed it.


I've been following this debacle quite a bit, and Corky has seen datalogs from the motors that blew, and does know what he's talking about.

Cosworth really missed the boat on that one, and them blaming the *weak* motors couldn't have spelled good things for BEGi. He has every right to tell them that they fucked up, and that -like always- he knows how to do it right.

I saw the NC prototype as Corky was wrapping it up, and it amazes me that a small team north of San Antone' properly executed what one of the fabled names in racing failed miserably to do.
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Old 07-17-2009, 06:20 PM   #9
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One thing that I can not figure out:

Turbo people = understanding fuel, timing, ECU's, charge air temps, or are willing to learn.

SC people understanding fuel, timing, ECU's, charge air temps and don't seem to be willing to put in the slightest bit of effort into tuning their stuffs. I mean, both are still compressing air. Both have additional fuel and timing requirements. How can one whole segment think that the laws of physics don't apply to them?

Is it just that most SC's are shipped as a "kit in a box" and those buyers "assume all is well" when they slap it on?

There's a reason that I am still running wastegate. All of my **** isn't ready for more. Close, but not there. Gotta get that new IC in. The difference is that I KNOW that. The SC guys think that all they have to do is swap a pully and instant increase in power. They are clueless to the hows and whys.

Of course, I am generalizing, but it seems to be the rule, not the exception.
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Old 07-17-2009, 07:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stein View Post
SC bashing
hey **** you, my mp62 kit is bad ***, i strapped it on and it goes fast and beat all you turbo **** down the block with out having to charge the settings on power cards



Even with having a SC i do agree with what you just said and are in fact a moron and have really no clue about boosting, i just know it's make more air go in hole some hole in my motor and makes a really cool sound. but the same can be said about turbo users as well. there are plenty of people that turbo there cars and don't know **** you just see more with SC since it is really more noob friendly to install at home.
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Old 07-17-2009, 08:07 PM   #11
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One thing that I can not figure out:
This seems more DIYer vs. kit purchaser. Most people around this site know the theory behind the operation, but I bet there are a LOT of FM2 owners (not to stereotype them, but you know it's mostly true) who bolted on their kit (or had it done for them) and don't have the patience nor the desire to learn all there is to know about FI. I know plenty of ex-turbo SC'd Miata owners back in FL who switched to a supercharger and improved their autox times by a LOT. These guys know their stuff, and one of them dynos in the high 200s / low 300s range (U3 w/ 2L). So like you said, it's a generalization, but I don't think it's quite as deep a gap as you might think.
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Old 07-17-2009, 08:11 PM   #12
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I love Gary's post at the end when he locked it. "this is an NC forum and bashing Corky isn't an NC topic." Did he even read the thread? It was entirely an NC topic! It was about Corky rebutting Cosworth's claim of weak NC motors. Nearly every post in the thread endorced or supported Corky's opinion. What a clown.

It seems to me the SC kit companies tend to sell the kits as plug and play, instant hp, easy installation "horsepower in a box". All the big names like JR, FFS and the Cosworth kits. Until you look at companies like TDR, Begi, FM, etc, you don't find tuneable ecu's and intercooling being sold with supercharger systems. The big name systems simply cater to the lowest common denominator, PNP w/out tuning, to maximize sales volume and minimize production cost and support. .
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Old 07-18-2009, 09:21 PM   #13
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Ok i only got about two paragraphs in when i started to see the "article" was more a of a pitch for the xede, intercoolers and all that jazz.
Corky is talking about heat management, efficiencies and tuning. (Hence the call out to Xede in that MS has not yet released software for the NCs.)

I expect the thing that has Corky most riled is that Cosworth is trying to shift blame instead of taking responsibility.

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Old 07-19-2009, 12:46 AM   #14
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Did anybody happen to cache the thread?
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Old 07-19-2009, 12:55 AM   #15
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google might have, google is omnipresent!
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Old 07-19-2009, 03:01 PM   #16
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Old 07-19-2009, 11:22 PM   #17
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Hmmm. I actually wouldn't have thought that one was fodder for Gary The Remover. Cosworth is not a sponsor, and nobody was making potty-mouth. Just some straight talk about engine management theory and a bit of light hero-worship.

Ah well... Some folks just don't wanna learn, regardless.
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Old 07-19-2009, 11:52 PM   #18
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I happen to be reading this thread when someone smashed me over the head with a small sledge hammer. I think it need to be closed and deleted.
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Old 07-20-2009, 09:28 AM   #19
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Silly m.net....
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Old 07-20-2009, 03:33 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Hmmm. I actually wouldn't have thought that one was fodder for Gary The Remover. Cosworth is not a sponsor, and nobody was making potty-mouth. Just some straight talk about engine management theory and a bit of light hero-worship.

Ah well... Some folks just don't wanna learn, regardless.
Joe, have you been drunk lately? The cached version of that thread is a bunch of useless crap, not "straight talk about EMS theory and hero-worship". Did the thread take a big turn on page 2 or something? I can't make Google produce a cached version of page 2.
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