Help picking a subaru? (I think this is a new topic..)
 

So I did a little searching but didnt quite see my questionn answered. Hopefully I looked far enough. If not, feel free to call me an idiot and yell at me.

So I am considering trading in my current DD for lack of cargo room, lack of rear leg room, for something cheaper I don't feel like I need to baby as much, and is manual, still awd for snowboarding trips, and a little more fun to commute in but still relatively comfortable.

So naturally Subaru wagon comes to mind. My questions is, if I am planning on doing some light mods anyways, (nothing too major, this will be my DD so it has to be day/weekend projects) is it worth it to buy a WRX vs just an impreza?

Logic is, if I am most likely replacing DP/exhaust/intake/tuning regardless, would it make more sense to buy the WRX and do those things, or buy an impreza for cheaper, and spend some of the money I saved by buying the stock impreza on the remaining turbo components to get it up to the same level as light mods on a WRX? or on a forester instead of an impreza platform? how much value is there in starting on an already turbo platform and improving it vs hassle of turbo-ing an NA car? (I mean turboing a miata isnt so difficult if you know what you are doing, is turboing a stock impreza much more involved? similar scenario: adding a turbo to an NA engine that was designed for turbo initially)

Also, best bang for your buck model? I know 02-05 have fragile transmissions from what I have read, and 06-07 has the 2.5L vs the 2.0, but for a moderate power level, is paying more for the 2.5 really worth it? is the difference in spool really that much different between the two?

Summary: obviously an 06-07 wrx would be a more fun car than an 02 2.0L impreza, but is the price difference worth it if I could just mod the impreza to the same power levels?

comments/thoughts/reasons I am an idiot all welcome.

no chance I'd buy just an imprezza; there's barely a MPG bonus to compensate for the performance hit without the turbo.

I also wouldn't go with a 2.0L either.

I'm assuming you're looking at wagons? My WRX hatch can fit things up to 8' long depending. I just had a 6' ladder in the back this weekend. So many versatile.

The impreza 2.5rs is naturally aspirated. The WRX was 2.0 untill 06, then upped to 2.5.
Modding an impreza to attempt matching the WRX would be pointless. The gearset on the WRX was updated in '04 to "RA" gears, if I remember correctly, but they're still not bulletproof by any means.
Car Purchasing Forum
read through the stickies.

I'd never boost a impreza rs vs just buying a wrx. Its possible, but never ever looked apealing to me when I really weighed the pros vs cons

the only N/A impreza I'd do would be a 2-dr 2.5RS

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1391449200

but that doesn't help you for rear leg room.

the 06-07 indeed does have quite a bit more lowend torque.
the 06-07 also has longer gearing, and the boxes tend to snap just as often as the "glass box" before it.
the 2.0 does get better gas mileage when you drive it like a sane person
you can't go wrong with either, but each has different pro's and cons

Brain: yeah I'm looking at a wagon. Seems like for the stuff I want to do, that make more sense than a sedan. My current back seats don't even fold down, so I have like no usable cargo space. Much lame. want many versatile.

18PSI: I hadn't really seen anyone talking about turboing the RS, but I wasnt sure why. Im not trying to be an innovator and do more work than what makes sense, just curious why nobody has gone that route. Cost savings just don't justify the extra hassle I assume?

Ill keep trying to compare dyno results etc, but I guess I only have the one question left, and that is if the 06 with a 2.5 is only 3 hp and like 20 tq more powerful than the 02-05 2.0, is it worth paying extra for? If the trans in the 02-05 isnt really as bad as some people make it out to be, I don't see a big benefit between the 06 over the 05 at stock conditions. BUT if I plan to mod in the future I imagine the 2,5 responds better than the 2.0 to the same mods? example, say the catless dp/exhaust is installed on both engines, if it boosts performance by a given %, the stock comparisons are so close, I would end up at pretty similar power levels then too. So is it worth paying a few grand extra for an 06 vs 05? or am I mistaken in my assumption that they would respond the same? if 2.5 would respond outrageously better, maybe it is worth a few grand more up front?

non performance wise, it looks like both models have less than impressive road noise levels, sound system, nothing fancy inside, so other than AL control arms, I dont see a huge difference in 06 vs 05 just in overall aspects of ownership.

Im going to try to test drive both, just making sure there weren't any obvious reasons to rule out either. both are just under 100k, but the 05 is about 3k cheaper than the 06 and both seem to be in decent/good shape.

Forester XT and just deal with the slightly lower mpgs

/ thread

What is so much better about a FXT? slightly quicker spool and a little more cargo room?

1
that is exactly it, not worth it. if you do a crappy hack job using band aids it will be mediocre at best. if you do it right you'll be like 2k less than a wrx out of pocket which is just silly.
2
never underestimate the power of .5L and AVCS. peak numbers show you next to nothing about how a car feels. the 2.5 feels like a small v6, vs the 2.0 feels like a turbo 4. both are great in their own respect, just depends on what you want: better gas mileage or better torque. also the 2.5 makes so much more with mods.

I've had an 04(wrx), 05(wrx), 06(wrx), 07(wrx), and 08(fxt)
as far as all around awesome the forester has been the best. next would be the 06 wrx. the rest after that. my current 04 is cool i'm definitely enjoying it and like the mpg it gets vs the others, but if I was to mod it (I won't) I'd definitely go for the 06+

depends on year. 04-05 is basically an sti engine with a td04 and lgt trans and wrx just about everything else with more room, higher suspension, etc.
the 06-08 its basically an 06+ wrx with a lot more room, higher ride height, and way shorter gearing.

If you are going to go N/A I'd say any wagon would do... I prefer turbo. I owned a 9-2x n/a and even though it was extremely comfortable it wasn't enough space for me in the rear for my dog and other things I did. I ended up getting rid of it and bought myself an SF forester (98ish-02). It has a ej20k 2.0L Turbo Motor now but it's from a wrx wagon from overseas and is 9.0:1 compression. I personally don't like acvs, and I like to keep things simple. The little extra compression helps the pickup at low rpm.

I highly suggest a forester if you like to utilize headroom, space, throw a bunch of stuff in the back, tow small trailers, do construction, have a pet, etc.

I can definitely say, I sort of agree with the above about possibly going with a 2.5 turbo mainly because of the aftermarket support and newer motors get about the same gas mileage if not better than my 2.0L turbo. The Version 3/4 stuff uses a wierd type of ecu system that isn't as tunable in the states - so its pretty limited. That said... Collectively, if you decide to go Subaru... set your expectations on gas mileage LOW... don't expect to get the greatest w/ awd. But in my opinion, my forester is the best all purpose vehicle I have ever owned - I will never not have one or something like it.

Meeners: I might have been kinda confusing, I am not looking for NA. was just considering if I bought NA and turbo myself versus buying turbo.

18PSI: thanks for the comments. I was looking for someone with actual experience with the options vs just reading stats on a website so I appreciate the insight.

As far as gas mileage, it looks to be rated pretty similar to my DD 20/26 ish but my commute to work is 40 miles of about 95% highway cruising so I normally get 26-27 depending on traffic and how late I am running..

and as far as the WRX vs Forester, I normally drive by myself to work and thats all it's used for. I dont have any animals, or work from the car, or plan on throwing disco roller skate parties in the back, so I think just the WRX would be plenty of space for carrying snowboards and gear, my bike occasionally, and car parts. Its more length and width that I am looking for, versus height.

But it sounds like if the 2.5 responds much better than the 2.0, so it might be worth going with the slightly more expensive model. I'll be trading in a higher value car regardless so it's just me being a Jew trying to get as much money in the trade as possible.

Thanks for the comments everyone.

just put lowering springs on the FXT, it's now a car.

get the 06+ wrx with the uber long gearing and enjoy a likely 27-29mpg if you're 95% hwy
I've done that before with cc locked at 65

I see.

Yes as far as 2.0 vs 2.5, even though I have a personal vendetta against the 2.5 and like to pick on the big boys... the fight is strong with the EJ.

Disclaimer: as soon as you purchase a subaru and you modify it you will indefinitely be introduced to the Subi-douchebagery. There are a few great people that do work and understand the cars in DEPTH, however - A large quantity of the commun can't figure out a wrench from a 12 pt socket and think that internet read knowledge supersedes life/seat-time/garage-time and deems them God's. These are the people that buy the cars and immediately assume they are automatically the next supercar to beat on Pinks. Careful. Learn a ton, and have fun.

I've done a few judging appearances for a large local Subaru meet, car show, picnics, etc... and can definitely tell you that there are a lot of knowledgable folk and collectively people REALLY love these cars. I don't claim to know anything really, however I can attest that these are really great cars. Very versatile and Subaru was smart as far as part interchangeability. Regardless what car you choose, I think you will enjoy it.

Oh ya... Winter Tires in the Winter and you might as well dub that thing an all terrain vehicle.

A 2.0L tried to mess with me. I loled at him in my rear view.

lol Scott, comparing your vf52 car to a td04 you're cool dawg.

Overall peak power remains the same, but DAT TORQUE:drool:

Also Meeners, there is no logical argument you can ever provide for the 2.0 vs the 2.5 when it comes to making power. Even if you were to want to build a revvy setup you'd end up with 2.35L or 2.1/2.2, pretty much never a 2.slow.

I bet you do rustle a few jimmies on the forums with a discussion like that though :giggle:

comparing, no. Contrasting, yes. :)

I think I am leaning towards the 06 wrx, which I was already leaning towards but wanted to make sure I had some good reason for preferential treatment. Hopefully the dealership doesn't hate me for popping in after work right before they try to close to go for a test drive..

Thanks again for the comments everyone.

Oh yes? (Insert Verbal Ricer Fly by Here...) :vash2:

(Insert ricer explanation on why my 2.0L is unlike all other 2.0L's here) :hustler:



Lol... I'm a revolutionist and erroneously stubborn but I ain't stupid hehe... I've driven a few STI's and XT's. They hurt my feelings The only thing I got going on is I've surprised quite a few mildly modded guys ;)

Forever alone though... Turbo SF chassis are hilariously fun sleepers status. At the meets they always think I'm a poser and I be like :party:

Dey be like, get out of here... n/a poser you ain't elite.

Then I be like. It's turbo doh...

Dey be like... Naw ungh? Those didn't come turbo, stupid old ricer...

Then I be like: *hard park*... pop hood... run inside and get mellow mushroom pizza, come back to open arm subi hugs... juke moves run to car. peel out with pizza in hand holding out window like Papa John.

I made most of that last part up.

What I heard

Haha just kidding. And you are totally right about the subi-douches. I remember researching the 2.5 RS and some early wrx's trying to find concrete logical technical info like I do on this forum and was astounded at the knowledge base. This forum has spoiled me with its ratio of truly informed to ignorant car modification enthusiasts.

Rigid, some of the FXTs I've seen on this forum do make me lust after it from time to time. It seems the wrx wagon will suit you better though.

Orrrrrrrrrr.....

You could get a 05+ legacy gt wagon with a 5 speed and the limited package. More room, better interior and a little more grown up. The outback body style gives you stock fender flares. You have to upgrade the suspension either way because it is waaaay too soft in stock form.

This is what I did, and no regrets: however gas milage sucks especially with a tune that requires 93 octane gas. It is a true all rounder: it is my DD, I can haul a reasonable amount of stuff, and use the roof rack for kayaks,lumber, etc. Unstopable in the snow. It is a respectable driver's car, but not as engaging as say a 3 series. The shifter sucks.

Petrolmed - Please, DO confuse the two with me.

1) being a noble and vivacious low displacement underdog with purpose = 2) broke.

I agree with your choice... however, your pinky better had been up the whole time you typed this, you high exalted sumbeesh. I love me some Legacy. You can't touch my wagon swag though...

One thing to consider - Insurance costs

The WRX comes with a WRX douchebaggery crashy penalty

The FXT does not. FXT insurance is way cheaper because you are driving a safety SUV instead of a sportsy car.

SO, in summary

FXT = 2.5L, AVCS, more space, sleeper, no WRX douchebag stigma, CHEAP insurance, slightly worse gas mileage, shitty NVH, cheap interior.

WRX = 2.0L or $$$ to get 2.5L, no space, bad stigma, expensive insurance because every 17 y/o dbag rally wannabee crashes them, slightly better gas mileage, shitty NVH, cheap interior.

Manual trans FXTs can be hard to find, but I've seen quite a few 2004 and 2005 in decent shape, with decently low miles for less than $10K. How much is a '06+ WRX?

The FXT is an impreza chassis with a boxy body, so just about any WRX, STI part bolts on.

Every 05-06 LGT in the area seems to experience TONS of defects and issues that I've never seen on other subaru's. I say this because they come to me, and I usually fix it or tell them how to proceed with fixing it. Clutch issues, wiring/electric issues, you name it. I think its was like the bastard stepchild for 08+ wrx drivetrain testing or something lol

I always tell people my 380/380 FXT is bone stock.

:dealwithit:

This is at only 330whp and pump gas ;)

(don't mind the commentary, we were....well.....trying to be funny)



other car is a 2008 Nismo 350Z with bolt ons


I'll look for more video's later. I had a bunch no idea where I put them.

Ill have to watch them when I get home, work blocks streaming media :/

I was looking at an 06 WRX wagon with 98k for 12k
or an 05 WRX wagon with 98k for 9k

I got an ins quote and it's only $15/month increase. But would lower my car loan total by about 4-7 grand depending which model I go with, and probably get better interest rates so I could either pay off the total earlier, or lower my monthly payments a significant amount, so even if the insurance is more expensive, I'm still paying less every month overall.

test drive them back to back. you'll see what I mean

Dat Headroom doh, and heated seats doh... LOL watching a wagon wax people gets me all giddy inside!...


...WAX IN THE SNOW!!!!!

SHAMELESS PLUGS!
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...6.jpg~original

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8.jpg~original

O.P. Stop bull shittin' and get a turbo forester.

lol as long as we're whoring:giggle:
https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...en-8%3D-60039/

Same here. 05 OBXT limited 5mt. Lowered to stock LGT ride height.

EDIT: but both mine and my brother's LGT had cracked exhaust valves around 100k miles.

my 2009 WRX's premium was barely more than my 2000 Nissan altima that I replaced...

Yeah I dunno what all the fuss is about insurance rates: my wrx is 8 bucks more PER 6 MONTHS to insure than my miata

Too many variable for everyone to compare.

For me the Miata is by far the cheapest to ensure. Previous vehicles include;
03 Silverado ~$200 more per month than Miata
00 Civic ~$30 more per month
96 318is ~$30 more per month.

All of these vehicles were valued at less than the Miata.

EDIT. Got a quote for 03 Impreza hatch a while back, ~$100 more per month.

miatas simply are incredibly cheap to insure. the end.

my rates went up more because of the county I moved to...

I can't compare to my miata ins, I only had bare minimum on that, but I have full coverage on my Lexus. But the ins lady mentioned it isn't just value of the car that affects (effects? I can never remember which one is right) the rates, its "points' associated with the car whcih could include cost of ownership, cost of average replacement parts, frequency of theft, frequency of accidents for THE CAR not just the driver. So the fact lil old ladies drive miatas when they arent owned by MT members probably helps keep the points associated with the car low, in addition to the fact literally nothing could happen to a miata that cost more than like $300 dollars to replace...

I went to look at a Forrester XT last night but had sad face when i saw it was auto. and the shady dealer informed me "the sunroof is cracked, it doesn't leak but I think something fell on it" I was like "yeaaahhh I'm going to go..." because obviously that isn't a well maintained dealership if they accept something falling on a car in their inventory as acceptable.. not much luck finding FXT or Legacy XTs in my area, but both happened to be at this dealer and both happened to be auto and not in awesome condition so i'll have to keep looking for some to test drive to compare.

As for the seat heaters and headroom, I'm not an ogre or giant so I don't know why I would need much more headroom than a wrx would provide and I already sweat like a fat man (literally have prescription deo) so the seat heaters don't get used much in my current car, so not really a selling point.

18PSI: Are you guys just fans of the body style? I know the 380/380 is pretty impressive results but couldn't you get the same results from a WRX with the 2.5 with the same work done to it? or do you just like the sleeper(ish) look (WR blue is kinda a give away haha) and the ability to say you made fools of kids in an SUV? The decreased gas mileage probably doesn't outweight the delight received from surprising people in a SUV for me.. Unless there are other reasons y'all are trying to push me towards the FXT over WRX? Cuz if its just sleeper status, I could always get a license plate NOTFAST on a WRX and fool everyone :p

I dunno about the others but I like wrx wagons too, and yes you can do the same because its the same engine. It has quite a bit more interior room, it has better ground clearance, a stronger transmission, and of course its awesome to have an "SUV" that weighs only like 100lb more than its "sedan" counterpart and the sleeper factor of it.

I was in the back of a forrester once, i swear my Hatch had more rear legroom than it. Might have been an 06?

He lowered it with Swift springs, which put it down to a car's level, which was awesome.

I'd consider one only if it was lowered; I drove FaeFae's once too and I didn't like how high it was, I'm not fond of ground clearance. That thing was pretty insane though, just felt weird that an "suv" could be like a car...before it blew up at least.

Pretty sure legroom isn't much different from your hatch, maybe a tiny bit but not drastically. Headroom is quite significantly improved over the pre-08 cars though

oh yeah, headroom is rediculously insane; there's like 2 feet of headroom.

So far my lgt has been reliable except for one failed wheel bearing. Currently running "stage 2" bolt ons.

yeah if the ground clearance is one of the pros, but then it handles like an suv, unless i lower it and it handles like a car, then it doesnt have better ground clearance anymore..so not really a pro anymore. I dont plan to do offroading in it, other than just making it up my sisters incline of rain eroded gravel and rocks they call a driveway up in boone, but ive made it in my IS250 and it doesnt have an insane amount of ground clearance, its just the AWD i want. And I think autox/track time would be more fun in a wagon vs an suv

another question I had pop up was how does the F/R weight distro compare between the sedan and wagon? If most people swap in STI springs, that would be fine for the sedan, but then since the wagon is heavier would that be noticable with different weight distro on the STI spring rates?

Basically, I'm asking would I regret getting a wagon since i would have to shop for wagon specific components, or is wagon aftermarket support just as strong as it is for the sedan, or are they effectively close enough the differences are negligible?

You won't regret any choice. I've had an 02 WRX sedan, 08 WRX wagon and now have a 07 FXT. I enjoyed all of them. The 08 had nice pull, suspension sucked until modded. The 02 felt more ALIVE, visceral. I've only had the FXT for a month now (thanks Vlad). It's bone stock, dips and dives, jiggles and jives like a tug boat. STI struts, rear sway are payed for and in transit. I'll update once their installed.

We need a Subaru sub forum here. I'm tired of trying to sift through boatloads of crap, while trying to find performance oriented info on the other sites.

lol true that. that's why I have my "other car" subaru thread :giggle:

sti suspension does wonders to cure the dives and jives you've experienced. good call there

1000x this, Subaru forums are terrible. I'd love to visit my turbo Miata forum for all relevant car information.

Also, finding a manual FXT is difficult, I've been looking for over 3 months and have yet to find a decent one.

I might try to look at that 06 WRX wagon after work, carfax is clean, and dealership claims no known issues, anybody have any common failures for me to keep an eye out for? I know the basic car stuff to look for in a used car, but anything specific to these?

When building my subaru, i got 90% of my help on this forum - despite posting on 2 subaru forums and only 1 miata forum. miataturbo.net 4 lyfe.

Anyways, subaru love here. This car is so kick ass, that I'm halfway tempted to make it fast. Then I drive it in the snow or on the dirt and realize that really, it has plenty of power, and TONS of torque. It's powered by an ej253 (n/a) from a 07 2.5i.

Got about 500 miles on it since the swap now, it's taken me skiing about 8 times. Going again tomorrow :). And it's snowing right now.. perfect subaru day.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1391540832

Don't mind my dirty sun beaten cars. <3

I went with 04 STI springs in front on 07 standard wrx front struts (04+ springs wouldn't work for me). I went with wrx WAGON rear springs and wrx rear struts. Aesthetically it looks great, and the ground clearance is fine. It works well and looks great, however I would advise on better front shocks and upgraded rear sway if you can afford it. Front springs are bit stiff in low speed applications for normal wrx shocks and you will get a bit of body roll combined with a little understeer.

first time I asked a subaru form about tuning, they told me just to pay for one.

I stopped accessing it.

Ahh yeah that's right, the rear wheel bearings suck. I've changed driver's side twice, passenger side 3 times. The last time I was able to change it during my 1 hr lunch break, that's including driving to my dad's store and back, about 10-15 min each way. It's nice when nothing is rusted together.

Coincidentally I got my first CEL since my cracked exhaust valve yesterday. TGV sensor going flakey. I unplugged it and plugged it back in, cleared the code and it's been off since, but this may be the time to remove the TGV's. Or replace the $35 sensor, that'd be easier.

Well let's get a sub forum going then.

I'm not their yet, but someday I'll be trying to find your thread on fixing the terrible DBW. It would be cool if we had all the Subaru content centrally located.

You can do it! :brain:

I too have an FXT. '07, 5 speed, 116K, one owner, bone stock daily driver.

Transmission was replaced under warranty at 14K and I have rust starting in the rear fenders, but beyond that it's required nothing but routine maintenance.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1391541716

Yeah except check out the flip side to this scenario and look at all the massive failures that resulted from stupid n00bs thinking they know what the crap they're doing and "tuning" their cars themselves.

It happens here all day every day, except our motors handle people's mistakes much much better, and are super cheap to replace should they not.

Pop an EJ2xx and you're looking at 2-3 grand just to get the car running again, and that's best case scenario

we can just leave it here. or start a new fourm. ;)

i do need to go back in and work on my tune. got lazy once my tuning laptop failed. I did get a new HDD and reinstalled the OS, but havent touched it since...that was Sept.

All the high exalted things must have a fallacy. Fkn' WHEEL BEARINGS! I'm pretty sure the word Forester pops up under google under that query... alas. The stage boss' weak point.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...n.jpg~original

I love my FXT:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1391577780

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1391580786https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1391580786https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1391580786https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1391580786

:giggle:

Not everyone can hold your hand, there's only room for braineack's fat fingers.