here's a list of senators who voted AGAIST precluding rape in contracting
#64
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But let's actually make it comparable, shall we?
-Your coworker complains that you've brought a gun to work before, and he doesn't feel safe at work. Your manager ignores his concerns.
-After you shoot your coworker (he survives, but is mentally scarred for life by the incident), your manager locks him in a box and refuses to let him go home
-It takes governmental intervention to get your coworker unlocked
-When your coworker finally gets out of the box, a rape kit is taken for evidence, which is magically "lost" by your manager or his boss or someone in the organization
-When your coworker gets home, she tries to bring criminal charges against you, and the manager, and everyone else, but the DOJ refuses to listen to her and no charges are filed.
-You don't get fired, let alone spend a single night in jail.
So you're telling me you don't deserve to bring civil charges against this organization?
#65
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If you stop your scenario there, sure, they're not responsible.
But let's actually make it comparable, shall we?
-Your coworker complains that you've brought a gun to work before, and he doesn't feel safe at work. Your manager ignores his concerns.
-After you shoot your coworker (he survives, but is mentally scarred for life by the incident), your manager locks him in a box and refuses to let him go home
-It takes governmental intervention to get your coworker unlocked
-When your coworker finally gets out of the box, a rape kit is taken for evidence, which is magically "lost" by your manager or his boss or someone in the organization
-When your coworker gets home, she tries to bring criminal charges against you, and the manager, and everyone else, but the DOJ refuses to listen to her and no charges are filed.
-You don't get fired, let alone spend a single night in jail.
So you're telling me you don't deserve to bring civil charges against this organization?
But let's actually make it comparable, shall we?
-Your coworker complains that you've brought a gun to work before, and he doesn't feel safe at work. Your manager ignores his concerns.
-After you shoot your coworker (he survives, but is mentally scarred for life by the incident), your manager locks him in a box and refuses to let him go home
-It takes governmental intervention to get your coworker unlocked
-When your coworker finally gets out of the box, a rape kit is taken for evidence, which is magically "lost" by your manager or his boss or someone in the organization
-When your coworker gets home, she tries to bring criminal charges against you, and the manager, and everyone else, but the DOJ refuses to listen to her and no charges are filed.
-You don't get fired, let alone spend a single night in jail.
So you're telling me you don't deserve to bring civil charges against this organization?
#66
Everyone is interpriting a lot out of a somewhat vague paragraph. I would like to read the rest of the bill to see what else was in it or if this was elaborated on more.
#67
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Cueball's argument last page is the only legitimate one in this entire thread. The idea that the amendment reaches too far by listing retention, etc. is a plausible one, and worth debating. What really scares me is every argument here is either "well she shouldn't have signed the contract" (Did you ever consider that perhaps NOBODY should be able to sign that contract?) or "well the company isn't reponsible, they didn't do anything wrong" (They did SEVERAL things wrong, some of them negligent, some of them criminally negligent).
#68
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Except forced arbitration clauses can do exactly that - essentially protect the company from any and all negligence, even when it's legitimate negligence. That is the scary thing about forced arbitration - it gives companies absolutely free reign to do whatever the **** they want with no judicial oversight whatsoever. Like Hustler said, we need to hold the companies that are taking our federal tax dollars to a higher standard than that.
#70
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Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
edit: short enough to just post here:
Sec. 8104. (a) None of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used for any existing or new Federal contract if the contractor or a subcontractor at any tier requires that an employee or independent contractor, as a condition of employment, sign a contract that mandates that the employee or independent contractor performing work under the contract or subcontract resolve through arbitration any claim under title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 or any tort related to or arising out of sexual assault or harassment, including assault and battery, intentional infliction of emotional distress, false imprisonment, or negligent hiring, supervision, or retention.
(b) The prohibition in subsection (a) does not apply with respect to employment contracts that may not be enforced in a court of the United States.
(b) The prohibition in subsection (a) does not apply with respect to employment contracts that may not be enforced in a court of the United States.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:HR03326:
#71
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What happens if you find out it was due to the illegal activities of ACRON that Al Fraken got "elected"? Then what? Ignore the fact that democrats are morally bankrupt as well (or just about any career politician for that matter)?
#72
There are levels of negligence that will, with out a doubt, force you to go into arbitration, but it can reach a level of gross negligence that can not be forced into arbitration.
Arbitration in my mind is so beyond flawed. People need to take responsibility for what they should be accountable for. It is like David vs. Goliath, but this is real life and not some fairy tale. David will always get crushed. Don't get me wrong, the court system is flawed as well. There is always some way that one side will have an advantage.
Arbitration in my mind is so beyond flawed. People need to take responsibility for what they should be accountable for. It is like David vs. Goliath, but this is real life and not some fairy tale. David will always get crushed. Don't get me wrong, the court system is flawed as well. There is always some way that one side will have an advantage.
#75
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There are levels of negligence that will, with out a doubt, force you to go into arbitration, but it can reach a level of gross negligence that can not be forced into arbitration.
Arbitration in my mind is so beyond flawed. People need to take responsibility for what they should be accountable for. It is like David vs. Goliath, but this is real life and not some fairy tale. David will always get crushed. Don't get me wrong, the court system is flawed as well. There is always some way that one side will have an advantage.
Arbitration in my mind is so beyond flawed. People need to take responsibility for what they should be accountable for. It is like David vs. Goliath, but this is real life and not some fairy tale. David will always get crushed. Don't get me wrong, the court system is flawed as well. There is always some way that one side will have an advantage.
#76
Sorry, the population of my state isn't retarded enough to vote A PAIR of senators into office that are so dead-set in the ideals of party politics that they will LITERALLY vote to PROTECT COMPANIES THAT COVER UP RAPES in order to maintain their party lines.
There is no justification of this that is even remotely rational, folks. It's rape, end of story. If you seriously think that corporations like KBR that actively utilize arbitration to avoid confronting accusations like this deserve our tax dollars, you need to take a serious step back. This is not about protecting big business, or partisan politics: This is about basic human rights.
There is no justification of this that is even remotely rational, folks. It's rape, end of story. If you seriously think that corporations like KBR that actively utilize arbitration to avoid confronting accusations like this deserve our tax dollars, you need to take a serious step back. This is not about protecting big business, or partisan politics: This is about basic human rights.
Too god damn right.
#77
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If you stop your scenario there, sure, they're not responsible.
But let's actually make it comparable, shall we?
-Your coworker complains that you've brought a gun to work before, and he doesn't feel safe at work. Your manager ignores his concerns.
-After you shoot your coworker (he survives, but is mentally scarred for life by the incident), your manager locks him in a box and refuses to let him go home
-It takes governmental intervention to get your coworker unlocked
-When your coworker finally gets out of the box, a rape kit is taken for evidence, which is magically "lost" by your manager or his boss or someone in the organization
-When your coworker gets home, she tries to bring criminal charges against you, and the manager, and everyone else, but the DOJ refuses to listen to her and no charges are filed.
-You don't get fired, let alone spend a single night in jail.
So you're telling me you don't deserve to bring civil charges against this organization?
But let's actually make it comparable, shall we?
-Your coworker complains that you've brought a gun to work before, and he doesn't feel safe at work. Your manager ignores his concerns.
-After you shoot your coworker (he survives, but is mentally scarred for life by the incident), your manager locks him in a box and refuses to let him go home
-It takes governmental intervention to get your coworker unlocked
-When your coworker finally gets out of the box, a rape kit is taken for evidence, which is magically "lost" by your manager or his boss or someone in the organization
-When your coworker gets home, she tries to bring criminal charges against you, and the manager, and everyone else, but the DOJ refuses to listen to her and no charges are filed.
-You don't get fired, let alone spend a single night in jail.
So you're telling me you don't deserve to bring civil charges against this organization?
Seriously, I would then be guilty of those offenses and so would the boss in whatever jurisdiction it occurred. What do the actions of a couple of individuals have to do with corporate liability except money? What did O.J. Simpson's (alleged) murder of two people have to do with the NFL, ABC Sports, or Hertz Rent-A-Car? Nothing. They were just his employers.
If the law enforcement officials in that jurisdiction choose not to act then it sucks to be in a shithole lawless country and you should definitely not make that mistake again. I have a little personal rule about not going to places where there is no law and bandits use brute force, guns, or bribery to do whatever they want. I'm not a big fan of visiting Colombia or Nicaragua for that reason. And I don't like hanging around with the Kennedys for the same reason.
This amendment doesn't make any of these actions more illegal or more enforceable. It is a stabbing motion being made towards a pet target of the leftists.
And yes, civil charges might be in order against me and against the boss, but what does that have to do with Pizza Hut? Those people in their cubicles at the Pizza Hut home office are not responsible for my psychopathic behavior. And to say they are is preposterous.
#78
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I don't even know where to begin with this ****.
Absolutely everything, actually. Corporate law in the US dictates that an employer is reponsible for its employees' conduct while the employee is on the job, or on company property, or acting in a way that represents the company. Whether you agree with this or not, the company is still liable. Sorry, but that's how it is.
It makes no difference, but like I said I don't like frivolous litigation. If you spill hot coffee, you spilled ******* coffee and you're stupid. If you put the cruise control on and went to back to make a cup of joe in your Winnebago, you're a fool and you deserve nothing. If you're raped and told to keep quiet or you'll lose your job, you probably deserve something for it - or at least the corporation deserves to lose something.
Those are actions taken on behalf of the corporation. This isn't just a manager doing something stupid, this is a manager doing something stupid on behalf of the company - telling an employee that they'll be fired if they disclose a wrongdoing is so morally corrupt it's stunning.
Victim: Gang-Rape Cover-Up by U.S., Halliburton/KBR - ABC News
There comes a point at which the corporation that willingly hired all of these people becomes liable for the gross negligence, destruction of evidence, rape, unlawful detainment, etc. that occurred. If you don't think that she should recover a monetary award, then there's probably a case to be made there. The problem is that this is not an isolated incident.
Another KBR Rape Case
Think Progress » Rep. Poe: At Least 3 Other Women Were Sexually Assaulted While Working For KBR In Iraq
This isn't just 2 guys raping a girl. This is unlawful detainment, destruction of evidence, etc. This is not the kind of conduct the employees of a corporation that is funded by federal tax dollars should be able to get away with.
So it's her fault for going to Iraq in the first place, because if you go to Iraq and get raped you should have no legal recourse of any kind? Are you ******* kidding me?
It's not as if contractors that go overseas aren't still bound by US law:
http://www.contractormisconduct.org/...tml?CaseID=898
That's the point of a corporation, hence one form being named "Limited Liability Corporation". It protects individual hiring managers and CEOs by creating an entity that can and should be held responsible for the grossly negligent misconduct of its employees.
This is not hot coffee in your lap, this is not electrocuting yourself in the bathtub, this is not stopping a chainsaw with your genitals. This is rape, unlawful detainment, and destruction of evidence, and she did ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong. For you to suggest that she should have no legal recourse whatsoever because the crimes committed against her were overseas is so ludicrous it makes me sick to my stomach.
I'd love to see even one of you make this case to your wives or girlfriends.
It makes no difference, but like I said I don't like frivolous litigation. If you spill hot coffee, you spilled ******* coffee and you're stupid. If you put the cruise control on and went to back to make a cup of joe in your Winnebago, you're a fool and you deserve nothing. If you're raped and told to keep quiet or you'll lose your job, you probably deserve something for it - or at least the corporation deserves to lose something.
Jamie Leigh Jones, now 22, says that after she was raped by multiple men at a KBR camp in the Green Zone, the company put her under guard in a shipping container with a bed and warned her that if she left Iraq for medical treatment, she'd be out of a job.
"Don't plan on working back in Iraq. There won't be a position here, and there won't be a position in Houston," Jones says she was told.
"Don't plan on working back in Iraq. There won't be a position here, and there won't be a position in Houston," Jones says she was told.
Jones told ABCNews.com that an examination by Army doctors showed she had been raped "both vaginally and anally," but that the rape kit disappeared after it was handed over to KBR security officers.
There comes a point at which the corporation that willingly hired all of these people becomes liable for the gross negligence, destruction of evidence, rape, unlawful detainment, etc. that occurred. If you don't think that she should recover a monetary award, then there's probably a case to be made there. The problem is that this is not an isolated incident.
Another KBR Rape Case
Think Progress » Rep. Poe: At Least 3 Other Women Were Sexually Assaulted While Working For KBR In Iraq
This isn't just 2 guys raping a girl. This is unlawful detainment, destruction of evidence, etc. This is not the kind of conduct the employees of a corporation that is funded by federal tax dollars should be able to get away with.
It's not as if contractors that go overseas aren't still bound by US law:
http://www.contractormisconduct.org/...tml?CaseID=898
This is not hot coffee in your lap, this is not electrocuting yourself in the bathtub, this is not stopping a chainsaw with your genitals. This is rape, unlawful detainment, and destruction of evidence, and she did ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong. For you to suggest that she should have no legal recourse whatsoever because the crimes committed against her were overseas is so ludicrous it makes me sick to my stomach.
I'd love to see even one of you make this case to your wives or girlfriends.
#79
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That's the best case I can make, guys.
-Even if you don't like frivolous litigation, I don't think you can call compensation for rape and unlawful detainment frivolous
-US Law dictates that corporations can and should be held liable for the actions of their employees
-KBR attempted to use arbitration to get out of their legal responsibilities, and more than a few people think that's bullshit (including the conservative 5th Circuit Court of Appeals)
With that, I'm not going to post in here anymore because it's giving me a headache.
-Even if you don't like frivolous litigation, I don't think you can call compensation for rape and unlawful detainment frivolous
-US Law dictates that corporations can and should be held liable for the actions of their employees
-KBR attempted to use arbitration to get out of their legal responsibilities, and more than a few people think that's bullshit (including the conservative 5th Circuit Court of Appeals)
With that, I'm not going to post in here anymore because it's giving me a headache.
#80
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- did KBR tell the employees to rape the girl?
- I understand the '30 minutes or it's free' argument, but a business needs to protect itself from everything including isolated incidents of random acts of violence and govt bureaucracy.
- wouldn't you if it happened at Track Speed? What if one of your employees kills someone on the track and the family sues trackspeed...funny how you have to sign a waiver to get on the track.
- I understand the '30 minutes or it's free' argument, but a business needs to protect itself from everything including isolated incidents of random acts of violence and govt bureaucracy.
- wouldn't you if it happened at Track Speed? What if one of your employees kills someone on the track and the family sues trackspeed...funny how you have to sign a waiver to get on the track.