House Passes Health Care Bill
 

It blows my mind that people look at this mess of a plan and actually think "Yeah, thats a good idea, lets do that." I agree what we have now isn't perfect, but a simple overhaul of what we have now would surely be better than what we will be getting. If this does somehow pass in the Senate, I can't wait to be one of the cynical bastards to say "I told you so." Give it a year or two, everyone who was for it will change their minds about it being a good idea.

My favorite part is if I decide to not have health insurance, I'm going to be taxed out of the ass for it, even though I won't be using it. FUCK YEAH! More taxes, that is exactly what I and everyone else needs. But who knows what is in revision 85,294 of this awful plan. I also love that no one got to read the fucking thing first. Stupid bitch Pelosi told everyone they would have something like 48 hours to read it online, and that never came around. Not just us common people, but most of the people in our crock of shit government also didn't get to read it. Who knows what kind of fucked up stuff is in this thing. The government can't even handle the simplest of tasks, but they think they can somehow tackle an issue this broad with a 1,000+ page plan that no one is going to get to discuss and revise outside of the few people who had their sticky hands in making it.

Really I don't even give a shit anymore. Everyone is the government is corrupt and stupid, and most of the country is equally stupid and follows them blindly. If it becomes reasonably doable for me once I'm done with school to move elsewhere outside of the country, I will do so. This country is a house of cards and half of the cards have already been pulled, its bound to topple in the near future. No amount of bandages will fix our wounds.

:vash:

I'm not sure if I'm mad at the circumstances or the fact that I have to keep being bothered by this stupid shit. Why can't we just have a competent group of people to lead our country and stop meddling in shit and messing it up for everybody.

Told ya so ... just getting it in there in advance so no one can say I was ever for it.

I'm still happy about getting to say "told ya so" every other day or so concerning the election last year and everyone's hopes/dreams being crushed when I hear them bitching about things going on right now.

Remember when Obama fixed the economy? Health care is going to be awesome!

Haters will be hater.

this has the potential to totally ruin people like me who dont have, need or cant afford to spend 10% of there income on healthinsurance, maybe someone will drop a nuke on the capital or something to stop it. I can only hope.

This bill is to help people like you in this exact situation!!!! Why the hate?!!!

Yeah taking all my money is realy gonna help me scot. If I dont want to pay the current market rate for health insurance, at 1/4 what they want me to pay, why would i pay 4 times more for something i will nvr use.

What are you talking about?! the government is awesome. they are HELPING YOU!

This made me lol...


Socialist times here we come!!! I'm so excited! :jerkit:

in for health concentration camp

I mean it was just a matter of time. The consitution clearly sates that the government must provide.How more clear can it be? Richard, this clearly says, the government, once large enough to pwn you, has the right to provide anything and everything they want in order to 1. collect taxes, and 2. guarantee votes from lazy assholes in order to stuff wallets of career politicians.

I'm glad it passed. It is time for a change. While this may not be the best bill. It takes a necessary step forward that puts the issue in motion.

The truth is that every person in the US has access to health care if they are sick or injured bad enough to need it. There are alos free clinics. I can not attest to the quality of care, but it is there if you don't wish to pay for health insurance.

FWIW: I'm the guy paying for the guy that can't afford insurance. This will have a short term negative impact on my field and possibly my job.

Sometimes you have to take one for the greater good even if it sucks in the short term. I think it will eventually be good. I just hope eventually isn't 10-20 yrs from now.

You sir, are an idiot. Enjoy your joblessness/high taxes/sales taxes that will soon go the way of taxes over here in Germany (19% on EVERYTHING) Fuck this bill and everything else that Pelosi/Obama have come up with thus far. They're implementing all the negative aspects of socialism and not a single one of the very few good things about it.

Thats my feelings. In the last 6 or 7 years, I have only gone to the doctor once. The only time I would have liked to have had insurance, which I did have from my work when I was still working a few months ago, was when I had to go to the ER with kidney stones a month or two ago. I found it interesting that it costs far less for people who don't have insurance. they seem to only charge impossible fees to people with insurance, to get more from the insurance company. Another way our current insurance could improve. So yeah, why am I going to pay almost as much for health insurance as I do for federal taxes if I am not going to use the service. Its bullshit.

It will never be eventually good... look at how amazing other things offered by the government are!

Here is a letter someone posted on another forum I frequent.

To the Congress:

The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775 - you have had 234 years to get it right; it is broke.

Social Security was established in 1935 - you have had 74 years to get it right; it is broke.

Fannie Mae was established in 1938 - you have had 71 years to get it right; it is broke.

The "War on Poverty" started in 1964 - you have had 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to "the poor"; it hasn't worked and our entire country is broke.

Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965 - you've had 44 years to get it right; they are broke.

Freddie Mac was established in 1970 - you have had 39 years to get it right; it is broke.

Trillions of dollars were spent in the massive political payoffs called TARP, the "Stimulus", the Omnibus Appropriations Act of 2009... none show any signs of working, although ACORN appears to have found a new b***h: the American taxpayer.

And finally, to set a new record:

"Cash for Clunkers" was established in 2009 and went broke in 2009! It took good dependable cars (that were the best some people could afford) and replaced them with high-priced and less-affordable cars, mostly Japanese. A good percentage of the profits went out of the country. And the American taxpayers take the hit for Congress' generosity in burning three billion more of our dollars on failed experiments.

So with a perfect 100% failure rate and a record that proves that "services" you shove down our throats are failing faster and faster, you want Americans to believe you can be trusted with a government-run health care system?

20% of our entire economy?

With all due respect,

Are you f***ing crazy?

Because there are plenty of people out there who choose not to work and thus be able to afford to pay for their insurance themselves that you need to support...You know, SPREAD THE WEALTH....duh!!

I heard Bill Ayers is going to be the Health care czar. :giggle:

I appreciate your opinion, and admire your strong conviction for what you believe is necessary for a positive outcome in our society.

However, I do not appreciate you calling me an "idiot" because our opinions differ. A quick glance below my username should give you a little insight as to whether or not I am truly an "idiot". I hope that your future posts will show some restraint. If not, I hope that the moderators will edit this thread because personal attacks are a sure fire way to quickly derail this thread.

Moderators editing a post for calling someone an idiot :laugh: Good luck with that hope. People are called 1000x worse things and it stays.

But really though, while I don't think you are an idiot, I think your opinion is idiotic. I don't understand how anyone could look at this plan, and at how shitty our government has done in the past and still think its going to work out for the better.

This is my main issue, and the reason why it will have such a negative impact on my job. The difference between medicare and bcbs reimbursement is crazy. The reimbursements from private insurance companies need to be less. When I check a medicare chart the reimbursement is $50, When I check a bcbs chart the reimbursement is $270. Why are insurance premiums so high? The complaint is that revenue will drop substantially if we cut bcbs reimbursements. What I see happening is that the bcbs reimbursement will go down. The medicare reimbursement will go up a little, but Dr's will see more patients (get more revenue) because more people will have access to the same quality healthcare. I think it will take awhile to get right, but eventually it will be better for everyone. All patients get good care, Dr revenue stays the same or increases slightly.

I would love a decrease in premiums, but I think it will go to private or government insurance pool one way or another

My last comment about the bill: If it's so damn good and is going to help SOO many people, then WHY please tell me WHY..Pelosi pushed so hard (and was successful at) getting it put into the bill that those who don't buy into it will face 5 years in jail/$250,000 in fines..?

And being an idiot doesn't mean you're not an intelligent person, just that you have no common sense.

...and you think this is a good thing? It will not give EVERYONE healthcare, just more of the people who don't. I also love how the government is saying "people who can't afford" when in a lot of the cases, its people who don't want it, like myself. So they are going to force it down our throat, and we will still be left with millions of people who aren't insured. Premiums will go up, and people who had great health care will now only have mediocre care just so the small percentage of people who didn't have healthcare can have it (again, a lot of people by choice who will now be charged for their choice to not have coverage). Socialism in healthcare FTW!!!

As a stated earlier. I'm not sure if this bill will be "the one", but I do think it is a necessary step for healthcare reform. Healthcare costs are ridiculous and they need to come down. Will we see more in our paychecks because of it? Probably not, but more people will have coverage. I think that is a positive thing.

Have you even researched this plan at all? Costs will go up, we will see a lot more in our paychecks and while more people will have coverage, there will still be more than a million people without it. A lot of the people getting coverage that didn't have it before were people choosing to not have it. Now they will have it forced on them and have to pay for it.

What exactly is wrong with what we have now? Why do you think throwing away our system and taking one that the federal government is forcing on us is needed? We couldn't just fix what we have, which would be the logical thing to do? We are going to pay more and drive our deficit much further only to cover a fraction of the very small fraction of people who aren't covered... (AGAIN, a large chunk of those people are not covered by CHOICE, a choice that we will soon not have). Well, you will have a choice, as long as you can afford a large penalty for being uninsured...

I can see it from both sides here. While I agree that you should have a right to not purchase anything that you don't want. When you look at the all of people without insurance there will be a percentage that will get injured and have extremely large medical bills. Their treatment is then payed for by the hospital, and all the people involved in the treatment are working for free. The reality is that the staff does not see a loss in wage, but if it happens enough then the hospital could not afford to pay their staff. If everyone pays something , then hopefully there is enough money to pay for everyones' care.

If you get seriously injured, and you have not been paying into any system, then you have just been treated for free.

Why should I have to pay a lot for insurance so that people can not pay and still get treatment?

It's hard for me to take the position that I take. I pay an ass ton for insurance every month. Just in case my, my wife, or daughter gets sick. We are all very healthy. I'd love to see this extra money in my pocket. I'm one of the people paying a lot and hardly ever using it. Someone else will be using the medical care that I am buying.

H'Ville / B'Ham, you two aren't far from each other, I say you meet up and settle this with a good old fashioned duel.

I would prefer to fix the current system, but no one could agree to do that. The passed bill will more than likely fail and have to be fixed. I think that this "forced fixing" will be what eventually makes this system positive.

lol ok djp take my situation for example i support 3 people and make 400 dollars a week post taxes, it comes out to being alil less than 30k a year. If this bill passes aproximatley 50 or more dollars a week will be siphoned out of my paycheck, to support this fuckin bill. So mr djp who probly makes 2 to 3 times what i make to support the same amount of people does this sound like it will help me. I tell you what if i get sick just shoot me toss me in the bon fire and get it over with. I have no need for doctors or any of that other overpriced shit. I will leave that for the californians.

You guys need to see how Socialized Health care is working out for Massachusetts, then post here. And by you I mean DJP.

This is a good read: http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/10...linton-doesnt/

I would hope that your particular situation would qualify for the healthcare subsidies that have been discussed in the past. I would be lying if I told yo I know everything about the bill that was just passed. It is vast, and will take a great length of time to fully understand the ins and outs.

From what i have read that is with the subsidies. So basically we are screwed. And yeah i have read 99% of what i can find on the healthcare bill and all 6-7 forms of it and how each one would effect me. Bottom line any bill that passed and mandated that i get healthcare or pay there extortion, will ruin me. So everynight i will just pray that mushroom clouds apear over the capital, and california.

If I comprehended this correctly then I would say that the gentleman in the article shares a similar view as myself. Although it is not widely accepted.

I recently made a trip to Ottawa, Canada to visit relatives (both physicians), and one cousin in residency. They have national health care system. I would like to see a similar system in the US. Dump the money into medicare and let it be the national system. The reason why most seem to be against it is because of the higher tax that is imposed on everyone. The problem in the US is that our taxes don't generally go to things that directly make our day to day lives better. (let me clarify before I sound like a communist) In Denmark I believe they give 50% of their income to the government as tax. I also believe it is a flat tax. Healthcare, retirement, etc are all covered by the government. When you get old there will be someone to take care of you. The government will even sponsor your social activities. You want to start a miata club? The government will subsidize the club.

In the US we are taken care of on a minimal level if we have no money, the government does not subsidize a high quality of life. If your old with no money, then you get the bottom of the barrel for care, and you will most likely struggle.

Physicians in a national system have a lower income than physicians in the US. This is another reason why you don't see a large push for a national system.

I'm sure this post will make me even more unpopular when it comes to this topic, however I think it is good to hear other opinions on the issue.

Meh im still not swayed to your opinion.

For the OP, have you read the bill? Probably not...and, if you decided you don't want to have any insurance but have to go to the hospital, guess who pays you tab? ...me

and me. and if there's no preventative care (covered by your insurance), then the bills are usually higher than they would be otherwise.

Don't even want to get into this political debacle, but I agree with this statement!....many of us foot the bill for others and MOST of the time its bullshit....wic, people taking advantage of unemployment, uninsured ppl....

like i said just kill me i havent been near a hospital and many upon many years and will do my damndest to not be anywhere near one. So yeah how bout you talk to those people abusing the system and seeing a doctor every week for a runny nose or stiff wrist. Tell em to suck it up or die in the streets so i dont have to deal with the fallout they are creating. Hell up until 20 to 30 yrs ago health insurance was a real benefit now that its looking at a mandatory stay on everyone it will become just another burden. Fuck those idiots who talk about being scared cause they have no insurance, how about being scared cause you can't buy food for dinner, or gas/electricity to heat your home? There are basic needs of everyone and healthcare is not one of them by a long shot.

Or maybe your uninsured ass when you wreck your car and run up a few million dollar bill.

few million dollar lol sure not gonna happen like i said just leave me where i am. Julio on the other hand that drops a brick on his foot will be happy to go to the ER. I have auto insurance as i am required to via state law and i pay 2-3 times what the price should be of it becouse it is mandatory. Mandatory insurance helps no one, esp in car insurance becouse at the end of the day there are still people i know who drive with no license insurance and expired plates from 2 states over, and they are still driving around dispite having been pulled over multiple times etc. Make no mistake mysdnor if i have a wreck im either gonna walk away or nvr leave the site. So you wanna play chicken? winner gets to decide on mandating what people should pay for.

I live in Canada. I'm glad to see our neighbors move to adopt a similar system that is meant to raise the quality of life for the population as a whole.

Yes, when there are more social systems the middle class is favored (through higher taxes) but it's better than allowing the rich to get richer at the cost of the poor getting poorer.

People will always abuse the system - any system for that matter - so that's not a valid point in this argument.

I'm not trying to sway anyone towards my opinion. I don't expect anyone to read my posts and have a new outlook on life. I do, however, enjoy reading other peoples opinions. I try to keep an open mind. I'm sure there are many points of view that I have let go unseen. I can learn something from everyone, so I try to collect as much info as possible.

I am sorry that you feel this way while also having 3 dependents.

You could run up that before you even become conscious and tell them to let you die, which I think you are full of shit on the, "oh well, I don't have insurance so don't threat me bullshit"

hey magna, you could get a medic alert bracelet that says "DNR" on it and tatoo DNR on your chest too... maybe then they would not take you to the hospital?

If anyone can point me to ONE govenment public program that is well run and in the black, I'll consider their arguement that this isn't a failed abortion of another public program.

I'll wait...

Hussein

white power!!!

No I haven't and no one has. And how is it that you are covering my bill? I will be paying off my ER trip for the next few years. Maybe I am ignorant to how that works...

So let me get this straight...I'm serving in the US Army, I contribute 15% of every check to my TSP (thrift savings plan) it's kinda like a 401K. In addition to this I also have a high-ish yield savings account I put money in every month to save. I'm 21 years old. By the time I'm ready to retire I will have a nice chunk of change waiting for me. If I start paying extraa for the same health care I'm already getting then guess what's going to suffer, my savings.

Laquisha on the other hand...is 35 "supporting" 6 kids on welfare and has never held a job, and obviously isn't saving jack shit. undoubtedly she deserves the same quality of life when we're "old" as myself correct?

This is my problem with the nation going "socialist", Socialism IN THEORY is the perfect form of government, everyone does there part, everyone gets what they need BUT especially in this country not everyone will ever do their part, and those same people are the ones who will manipulate the system to get more than they need/deserve on top of it leaving me and people like myself to suffer the consequences/the bill.

As already stated, name 1 goverment agency that's run well/not manipulated/and in the black and I'll consider a national health care option. I see "social" medical care every day in the Army and can tell you it sucks ass and is extremely wasteful. I'm not allowed (in technicality) to buy motrin for a headache, I hve to go to sick call, what do I leave sick call with? A big ass brown paper sack full of all sorts of different drugs that the doctor thought was necessary..do I care? "No, I didn't pay for it" is the mentality of most.

It's early...none of that probably made sense so /rant.

:fawk: worthless trash

Ohhh! I know this one! Its a trick question isn't it? You can't name an agency because there isn't one. I win.

I have similar feelings about this. I contribute to a retirement plan. Live modestly trying to save as much as possible so that I don't have to rely on the government to take care of me. Then there are those that don't support society even when they have the ability. Poor choice after poor choice increases the burden on societies responsible individuals. It's kind of shitty that people basically have to take their future well-being into their own hands. I have, however, crunched those theoretical numbers. IF they turn out to be correct, then the amount I will be contributing towards the "greater good" will be minimal.

Don't forget that your people (Republicans) are the ones that want Laquisha to have all those kids instead of aborting them. Ironic, isn't it?


Frank

they also oppose gay marriage where you can't even HAVE kids

I might throw gas on a fire here. But as it is reported in the rest of the world, USA has the most expensive healthcae in the world, by a large margin. And still the quality of it is just on par with the rest of developed countries.

If someone pays for something, the money comes from somewhere, the only real loosers should be uninsured healthy individuals, who on the other hand probably gets a longer, healthier life, lets face it, diabetes and heart failure gets to a great percentage, especially in the low income percentiles.

Now this doesent concern me, but living in a country with government funded health care, being a health care professional, this is one thing i like paying taxes for.

The Swine Flu vaccine.....oh wait :facepalm: Hmmm, I wonder who's in bed with Obama...Democrats are so moral! I'm so glad they help out their constituents! The Government is awesome, we should have them do everything for us!

If you want cheaper health care, remove the restraint of interstate competition. Simply going away with that will lower costs substantially. Heck, the bill could fit on (1) piece of paper. But that's not really the goal is it?


"When the government fears the people there is liberty;
when the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson.

... And that's what I hate about political stereotypes. Because I oppose national socialism, I must therefore also oppose the rights of women and gays. Otherwise, how can I fit neatly into one of the pre-packaged schools of political thought?

i havent been vacinated since like the 6th grade where it was mandatory and im fine i basically just keep sick people away from me and dont let anyone around my food or shit if they show symtoms. Strong imune system and common sense to beat the shit outa people who are fucking with you go a long way.

We need to "round-up" all these people who want socialized medicine and make them wear an arm-band. America is about sporting the money and power to buy and sell poor, brown people. If you take that away from us whites, how are we going to afford our yachts and whores? We already had to send textiles to the 3rd world because Americans who can't afford health care are too good to work in sweat-shops, so what's next?

Health care is not a fundamental human right, labor is. You have the right to work for me until you fall over dead, and STFU about it because I'm trying to relax on my yacht that I could almost not afford in an increase in federal income tax.

Amen.

I'm not allowed to be a non-religious, pro-choice, gun toting, constitutional-conservative?

No, can I be though?
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Plus 1 to you and Joe.



On this bill...now we just need to pass "cap and trade" and really ruin this country.

I'm giving us 18 months before the shit really hits the fan. You think the economy was bad this last year...they've just barely kept the real storm at bay...and done a good job of letting us all get comfortable and allowing us to think everything is back to normal (besides double digit unemployment).

How can a society which does not work feed the poor and take care of the sick?



And "nay" to government run healthcare. The bumper sticker says it best:

"Think health care is expensive now...wait til it's FREE"

Big gubment has managed to fuck up everything it takes control of. WHY?...because they are not required to succeed, and failure does not carry the consequences it would in a business setting.

USPS vs. UPS/FedEx is a prime example...and they're just carrying letters!!!

Imagine such a government organization in healthcare...


EDIT: Need a better example of government motivation to succeed...look no further than your local entities. Our school districts CAN'T seem to cut costs...so they are just raising our property taxes this year to survive in this economy. The city can't seem to cut costs either (like any good corporation planning on surviving should). Noticed more cops and more tickets this year? Yes, they are writing WAY more tickets to generate income. That's exactly what the unemployed and financially strapped need...to be missing a quarter of their paycheck for "unsafe lane change tickets" when you, I and God all know my Miata fit in that hole just fine.

If local governments are dipping into our pocketbooks this bad...think of what the federal government will do.