i finally put the miata on the track!
05-25-2009, 01:55 PM
#41
Wait. Hustler tracked his car?!? It didn't blow up?!? The world didn't stop rotating?!? Hell didn't freeze?!?
Alright!
Loosening bolts and exhaust leaks are the bain of my existence also. S4 mani, potato, dp. There should be some custom tools sent with the kits so we can actually get to all those bolts. Major PITA. The middle dp/turbo bolt underneath and the right rear turbo/mani flange bolts are frickin impossible.
Alright!
Loosening bolts and exhaust leaks are the bain of my existence also. S4 mani, potato, dp. There should be some custom tools sent with the kits so we can actually get to all those bolts. Major PITA. The middle dp/turbo bolt underneath and the right rear turbo/mani flange bolts are frickin impossible.
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05-25-2009, 02:50 PM
#42
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Just found this:
E-mailed the guy asking how it held up under track conditions.
My last effort on trying to keep the studs and nuts from coming loose.
I used stainless mig wire and welded on steel rods from nut to nut, preventing them from backing off. Before I did the welding, I heat-cycled the studs and nuts for one hour, cool to red-hot, then retorqued the nuts.
If this does not prevent the nuts from coming loose under race conditions, I just give up!
I used stainless mig wire and welded on steel rods from nut to nut, preventing them from backing off. Before I did the welding, I heat-cycled the studs and nuts for one hour, cool to red-hot, then retorqued the nuts.
If this does not prevent the nuts from coming loose under race conditions, I just give up!
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05-25-2009, 03:01 PM
#43
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i think a design like what nissan does will be the best bet...
also i dont think welding the turbo to the manifold would be a good idea, because how are u gonna take off just the DP if u needed to?
i am removing my turbo and dp as we speak and i find it easy to leave the dp attached to the turbo and remove it all together.
also i dont think welding the turbo to the manifold would be a good idea, because how are u gonna take off just the DP if u needed to?
i am removing my turbo and dp as we speak and i find it easy to leave the dp attached to the turbo and remove it all together.
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05-25-2009, 04:17 PM
#45
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Can I get an AMEN?! I completely agree. When I installed the mani/turbo/dp last time I did it with the engine out of the car. This time, when I removed it, I disconnected the DP from the turbo, then removed the turbo/mani as an assembly.
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05-25-2009, 05:06 PM
#48
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Anyone tried SK6 or interference type threads on the tap end of the stud? The end of the stud that screws into the tapped hole (turbine housing for exit flange, mani for inlet flange) has threads that are sized to be an interference fit. Or in other words, it is self-locking. Here is an example in a M8 (DP flange)
McMaster-Carr
So maybe some of those, torqued down, with safety wired nuts (drilled or bend plates) would do the trick.
There are also higher temperature nickel-based safety wires available, including Inconel and Chromel
http://www.mcmaster.com/#nickel/=215gj5
McMaster-Carr
So maybe some of those, torqued down, with safety wired nuts (drilled or bend plates) would do the trick.
There are also higher temperature nickel-based safety wires available, including Inconel and Chromel
http://www.mcmaster.com/#nickel/=215gj5
Last edited by ZX-Tex; 05-25-2009 at 05:28 PM.
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05-25-2009, 05:41 PM
#49
This is so wild. Our 2.0T GTIs get tracked hard on race weekends. Usually 4-5 practice sessions of at least 30-45 minutes plus qualifying and then a 2.5 hour race. The manifold to head studs and nuts never loosen, neither do the downpipe studs/nuts.
I think they're standard 8mm studs and copper nuts. Not sure what's special about them, we don't safety wire anything. The nuts are frequently reused as well, they might be crimp copper nuts but they aren't hard crimping anymore.
Is double safety wiring that big of an issue for everyone that things like welding rods and flanges together is necessary?
I think they're standard 8mm studs and copper nuts. Not sure what's special about them, we don't safety wire anything. The nuts are frequently reused as well, they might be crimp copper nuts but they aren't hard crimping anymore.
Is double safety wiring that big of an issue for everyone that things like welding rods and flanges together is necessary?
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05-25-2009, 05:56 PM
#50
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I think the main difference is that those engines were engineered for turbo with a good amount of money spend in the process. Read the Audi forums: people only loose their nuts if they reused the nuts too ofter or their flanges are warped. The Audi nuts are $11 each though...
Safety wire is still alot of effort with no certain fix. Tack welding is probably less work.
Safety wire is still alot of effort with no certain fix. Tack welding is probably less work.
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05-25-2009, 08:40 PM
#51
I think the main difference is that those engines were engineered for turbo with a good amount of money spend in the process. Read the Audi forums: people only loose their nuts if they reused the nuts too ofter or their flanges are warped. The Audi nuts are $11 each though...
Safety wire is still alot of effort with no certain fix. Tack welding is probably less work.
Safety wire is still alot of effort with no certain fix. Tack welding is probably less work.
Safety wire allows for expansion and contraction of the metal through it's heat cycles, spot welding often cracks. IMO 10mm bolts an studs are too small.
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05-25-2009, 08:51 PM
#52
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This is so wild. Our 2.0T GTIs get tracked hard on race weekends. Usually 4-5 practice sessions of at least 30-45 minutes plus qualifying and then a 2.5 hour race. The manifold to head studs and nuts never loosen, neither do the downpipe studs/nuts.
I think they're standard 8mm studs and copper nuts. Not sure what's special about them, we don't safety wire anything. The nuts are frequently reused as well, they might be crimp copper nuts but they aren't hard crimping anymore.
Is double safety wiring that big of an issue for everyone that things like welding rods and flanges together is necessary?
I think they're standard 8mm studs and copper nuts. Not sure what's special about them, we don't safety wire anything. The nuts are frequently reused as well, they might be crimp copper nuts but they aren't hard crimping anymore.
Is double safety wiring that big of an issue for everyone that things like welding rods and flanges together is necessary?
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05-25-2009, 08:54 PM
#53
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Hustler -
I stay off the forum for a couple of days and you grow enough fur to finally track the car...
Glad to hear you are getting the results you were looking for. Here's to you finding the time (and $$$) to frequently repeat the experience!
- L
(I got the call I've been waiting for; I start the new job tomorrow. With luck, I'll be visiting tracks before the end of the season...)
I stay off the forum for a couple of days and you grow enough fur to finally track the car...
Glad to hear you are getting the results you were looking for. Here's to you finding the time (and $$$) to frequently repeat the experience!
- L
(I got the call I've been waiting for; I start the new job tomorrow. With luck, I'll be visiting tracks before the end of the season...)
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05-26-2009, 12:42 AM
#54
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Hustler, safety wire held up for a few events for me. Im going with stage 8s and trying that route next.
I don't drive hard enough for anything crazy. I am curious what jonwag thought about your driving vs mine vs savingtons. Since he has ridden with all of us. Whats funny is, he must have watched all three of us **** with our nuts all weekend. :gay:
I don't drive hard enough for anything crazy. I am curious what jonwag thought about your driving vs mine vs savingtons. Since he has ridden with all of us. Whats funny is, he must have watched all three of us **** with our nuts all weekend. :gay:
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05-26-2009, 03:04 AM
#55
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05-26-2009, 08:42 AM
#56
I've had zero problems with this. Haven't even retorqued since the initial install.
Studs are Holley Carburator studs. They are 5/16-18 threaded into the manifold flange with a standard nut on the back side as a lock nut. The turbo side is 5/16-24 and is running with the supplied lock washer and nut.
Studs are Holley Carburator studs. They are 5/16-18 threaded into the manifold flange with a standard nut on the back side as a lock nut. The turbo side is 5/16-24 and is running with the supplied lock washer and nut.
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05-26-2009, 09:34 AM
#58
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Hustler -
I stay off the forum for a couple of days and you grow enough fur to finally track the car...
Glad to hear you are getting the results you were looking for. Here's to you finding the time (and $$$) to frequently repeat the experience!
- L
(I got the call I've been waiting for; I start the new job tomorrow. With luck, I'll be visiting tracks before the end of the season...)
I stay off the forum for a couple of days and you grow enough fur to finally track the car...
Glad to hear you are getting the results you were looking for. Here's to you finding the time (and $$$) to frequently repeat the experience!
- L
(I got the call I've been waiting for; I start the new job tomorrow. With luck, I'll be visiting tracks before the end of the season...)
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05-26-2009, 09:37 AM
#59
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Hustler, safety wire held up for a few events for me. Im going with stage 8s and trying that route next.
I don't drive hard enough for anything crazy. I am curious what jonwag thought about your driving vs mine vs savingtons. Since he has ridden with all of us. Whats funny is, he must have watched all three of us **** with our nuts all weekend. :gay:
I don't drive hard enough for anything crazy. I am curious what jonwag thought about your driving vs mine vs savingtons. Since he has ridden with all of us. Whats funny is, he must have watched all three of us **** with our nuts all weekend. :gay:
Only track time will help.
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05-26-2009, 09:39 AM
#60
Congrats to hustler for getting it on track.
Stein- I think there's an immense difference between beating a turbo car to death on the street vs. beating the same car on the track. The track is just 10x more grueling.
fwiw - Here's a solution from Percy - the Split Lock header hardware
Stein- I think there's an immense difference between beating a turbo car to death on the street vs. beating the same car on the track. The track is just 10x more grueling.
fwiw - Here's a solution from Percy - the Split Lock header hardware
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