i finally put the miata on the track! - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 05-25-2009, 02:55 PM   #41
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Wait. Hustler tracked his car?!? It didn't blow up?!? The world didn't stop rotating?!? Hell didn't freeze?!?

Alright!

Loosening bolts and exhaust leaks are the bain of my existence also. S4 mani, potato, dp. There should be some custom tools sent with the kits so we can actually get to all those bolts. Major PITA. The middle dp/turbo bolt underneath and the right rear turbo/mani flange bolts are frickin impossible.
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Old 05-25-2009, 03:50 PM   #42
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Just found this:

Quote:
My last effort on trying to keep the studs and nuts from coming loose.

I used stainless mig wire and welded on steel rods from nut to nut, preventing them from backing off. Before I did the welding, I heat-cycled the studs and nuts for one hour, cool to red-hot, then retorqued the nuts.

If this does not prevent the nuts from coming loose under race conditions, I just give up!
E-mailed the guy asking how it held up under track conditions.
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Old 05-25-2009, 04:01 PM   #43
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i think a design like what nissan does will be the best bet...
also i dont think welding the turbo to the manifold would be a good idea, because how are u gonna take off just the DP if u needed to?

i am removing my turbo and dp as we speak and i find it easy to leave the dp attached to the turbo and remove it all together.
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Old 05-25-2009, 04:50 PM   #44
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Found more from this guy:
Quote:
The happy union of the turbo and the manifold. It lasted 30 laps without cracking. I think I have it beaten. (It only took 3 years...)
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Old 05-25-2009, 05:17 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cueball1 View Post
The middle dp/turbo bolt underneath and the right rear turbo/mani flange bolts are frickin impossible.
Can I get an AMEN?! I completely agree. When I installed the mani/turbo/dp last time I did it with the engine out of the car. This time, when I removed it, I disconnected the DP from the turbo, then removed the turbo/mani as an assembly.
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Old 05-25-2009, 05:42 PM   #46
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Flanges are fo suckaz.
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Old 05-25-2009, 05:53 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Flanges are fo suckaz.
So you're having a single piece cast block, mani, turbo ex housing and vband downpipe?
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Old 05-25-2009, 06:06 PM   #48
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Anyone tried SK6 or interference type threads on the tap end of the stud? The end of the stud that screws into the tapped hole (turbine housing for exit flange, mani for inlet flange) has threads that are sized to be an interference fit. Or in other words, it is self-locking. Here is an example in a M8 (DP flange)
McMaster-Carr

So maybe some of those, torqued down, with safety wired nuts (drilled or bend plates) would do the trick.

There are also higher temperature nickel-based safety wires available, including Inconel and Chromel
http://www.mcmaster.com/#nickel/=215gj5

Last edited by ZX-Tex; 05-25-2009 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 05-25-2009, 06:41 PM   #49
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This is so wild. Our 2.0T GTIs get tracked hard on race weekends. Usually 4-5 practice sessions of at least 30-45 minutes plus qualifying and then a 2.5 hour race. The manifold to head studs and nuts never loosen, neither do the downpipe studs/nuts.
I think they're standard 8mm studs and copper nuts. Not sure what's special about them, we don't safety wire anything. The nuts are frequently reused as well, they might be crimp copper nuts but they aren't hard crimping anymore.

Is double safety wiring that big of an issue for everyone that things like welding rods and flanges together is necessary?
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Old 05-25-2009, 06:56 PM   #50
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I think the main difference is that those engines were engineered for turbo with a good amount of money spend in the process. Read the Audi forums: people only loose their nuts if they reused the nuts too ofter or their flanges are warped. The Audi nuts are $11 each though...

Safety wire is still alot of effort with no certain fix. Tack welding is probably less work.
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Old 05-25-2009, 09:40 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookyfish View Post
I think the main difference is that those engines were engineered for turbo with a good amount of money spend in the process. Read the Audi forums: people only loose their nuts if they reused the nuts too ofter or their flanges are warped. The Audi nuts are $11 each though...

Safety wire is still alot of effort with no certain fix. Tack welding is probably less work.


Safety wire allows for expansion and contraction of the metal through it's heat cycles, spot welding often cracks. IMO 10mm bolts an studs are too small.
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Old 05-25-2009, 09:51 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjernigan View Post
This is so wild. Our 2.0T GTIs get tracked hard on race weekends. Usually 4-5 practice sessions of at least 30-45 minutes plus qualifying and then a 2.5 hour race. The manifold to head studs and nuts never loosen, neither do the downpipe studs/nuts.
I think they're standard 8mm studs and copper nuts. Not sure what's special about them, we don't safety wire anything. The nuts are frequently reused as well, they might be crimp copper nuts but they aren't hard crimping anymore.

Is double safety wiring that big of an issue for everyone that things like welding rods and flanges together is necessary?
Are the nuts actually copper, or copper coated, or maybe phosphor bronze?
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Old 05-25-2009, 09:54 PM   #53
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Hustler -

I stay off the forum for a couple of days and you grow enough fur to finally track the car...

Glad to hear you are getting the results you were looking for. Here's to you finding the time (and $$$) to frequently repeat the experience!

- L

(I got the call I've been waiting for; I start the new job tomorrow. With luck, I'll be visiting tracks before the end of the season...)
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Old 05-26-2009, 01:42 AM   #54
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Hustler, safety wire held up for a few events for me. Im going with stage 8s and trying that route next.

I don't drive hard enough for anything crazy. I am curious what jonwag thought about your driving vs mine vs savingtons. Since he has ridden with all of us. Whats funny is, he must have watched all three of us **** with our nuts all weekend. :gay:
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:04 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenR View Post
Safety wire allows for expansion and contraction of the metal through it's heat cycles, spot welding often cracks. IMO 10mm bolts an studs are too small.
Audi uses 8mm and they just stay on. They engineered the entire engine, turbo, exhaust in terms of load, vibration, movement, etc. We're just sucker slapping a turbo to a NA car, much like the Honda guys...
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:42 AM   #56
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I've had zero problems with this. Haven't even retorqued since the initial install.

Studs are Holley Carburator studs. They are 5/16-18 threaded into the manifold flange with a standard nut on the back side as a lock nut. The turbo side is 5/16-24 and is running with the supplied lock washer and nut.
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Old 05-26-2009, 10:28 AM   #57
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Congratulations Hustler!

Glad to see you're enjoying that wonderful car you've built.
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Old 05-26-2009, 10:34 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l_bader View Post
Hustler -

I stay off the forum for a couple of days and you grow enough fur to finally track the car...

Glad to hear you are getting the results you were looking for. Here's to you finding the time (and $$$) to frequently repeat the experience!

- L

(I got the call I've been waiting for; I start the new job tomorrow. With luck, I'll be visiting tracks before the end of the season...)
The next event comes up in 2-weeks. I'm also considering sending my car to boost logic to get them to box-up the radiator and intercooler.
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Old 05-26-2009, 10:37 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thesnowboarder View Post
Hustler, safety wire held up for a few events for me. Im going with stage 8s and trying that route next.

I don't drive hard enough for anything crazy. I am curious what jonwag thought about your driving vs mine vs savingtons. Since he has ridden with all of us. Whats funny is, he must have watched all three of us **** with our nuts all weekend. :gay:
I know what wagz thought...I was garbage out there. I was basically dicking around the whole day getting over the new power, then learning to drive different lines. I'm accustomed to 94whp to 120whp at the most...then to turn around and get in this car, well, it was humbling to say the least. There's a whole new respect for the car, lap times in general, and even more respect for hired guns who can drive an SM on day, a 450whp time attack car the next, then drive a porsche.

Only track time will help.
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Old 05-26-2009, 10:39 AM   #60
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Congrats to hustler for getting it on track.

Stein- I think there's an immense difference between beating a turbo car to death on the street vs. beating the same car on the track. The track is just 10x more grueling.

fwiw - Here's a solution from Percy - the Split Lock header hardware
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